Making Tax Digital

[LeighW]

House of Lords taking another look.

https://www.accountancydaily.co/house-lords-call-e...

[Eric Mc]

Only right and proper. It was the Lords' committee hearing in February 2017 that did a lot to put the kybosh on the original lunatic MTD proposals.

[LeighW]

Eric Mc said:

Only right and proper. It was the Lords' committee hearing in February 2017 that did a lot to put the kybosh on the original lunatic MTD proposals.

Absolutely Eric. I live in hope...

[Eric Mc]

And a recent tax case has thrown out HMRC late filing penalties on the basis that their e-mail communications to the taxpayer were poorly worded, inaccurate and misleading.

This has serious implications for MTD because under MTD, 100% of ALL communications from HMRC will be electronic so legal notices will have to be cast iron in their wording and formats to make them legally binding.

At the moment it seems that HMRC's electronic communications are way too vague and imprecise to be legally effective.

[plasticpig]

HMRC have launched their pilot (open beta) of MTD for VAT today: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/making-tax-digi...

[Eric Mc]

plasticpig said:

HMRC have launched their pilot (open beta) of MTD for VAT today: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/making-tax-digi...

Oh goodie.

My software supplier has also updated my software to allow me to file VAT returns on behalf of clients - if I want to.

[Eric Mc]

I see they have added a six month extension to the switch for businesses with "complex" VAT. Have they defined what they mean by "complex"?

It sounds like they are coming under pressure from certain business sectors.

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

I see they have added a six month extension to the switch for businesses with "complex" VAT. Have they defined what they mean by "complex"?

It sounds like they are coming under pressure from certain business sectors.

Yes:

Trusts.
Not for profit organisations that are not set up as a company.
VAT divisions.
VAT groups.
Public sector entities required to provide additional information on their VAT return (Government departments, NHS Trusts).
Local authorities.
Public corporations.
Traders based overseas.
People and companies who are required to pay on account.
Annual accounting scheme users.

[Eric Mc]

So not tour operators using the TOMS scheme, those using the various second hand good schemes or retailers using the various permutations of the Retail Schemes?

They'll be pleased to learn that their VAT returns are "simple".

Nice to see they are letting some government agencies off the hook (Local Authorities etc).

[Murph7355]

Eric Mc said:

...
Nice to see they are letting some government agencies off the hook (Local Authorities etc).

Ending "do as I say not as I do" is sadly a very, very long way off. Especially where taxes are concerned.

And we all thought the monarchy were the scheisters when they determined what taxes should be paid and by whom

[Ian Geary]

Eric Mc said:

Nice to see they are letting some government agencies off the hook (Local Authorities etc).

I work for a largish council, and sign off the vat return each month. Whilst not particularly complex, it does involve gathering a lot of data from schools, which presumably opens up issues around their network, security and system compatability.

I understand the need for rti on payroll data, as it has massive uses for assessing welfare benefit claims and detecting fraud.

I can only assume the mtd for vat has the same sort of purpose, and can further assume that as councils typically reclaim vat rather than pay it, we are not their highest risk when it comes to revenue maximisation.

So basically swap the word "complex" for "risky".


I personally haven't got a problem with it, but was surprised our large usa financial system didn't appear on the list of compatible software...

Ian

[Eric Mc]

Ian Geary said:

I work for a largish council, and sign off the vat return each month. Whilst not particularly complex, it does involve gathering a lot of data from schools, which presumably opens up issues around their network, security and system compatability.

I understand the need for rti on payroll data, as it has massive uses for assessing welfare benefit claims and detecting fraud.

I can only assume the mtd for vat has the same sort of purpose, and can further assume that as councils typically reclaim vat rather than pay it, we are not their highest risk when it comes to revenue maximisation.

So basically swap the word "complex" for "risky".


I personally haven't got a problem with it, but was surprised our large usa financial system didn't appear on the list of compatible software...

Ian

Initially MTD will give HMRC the same data they currently get. In the future, of course, it will allow them to data mine.

[LeighW]

"Lords committee told 'less than 15%' of businesses prepared for MTD"

https://www.accountancydaily.co/lords-committee-to...

[plasticpig]

Eric Mc said:

Initially MTD will give HMRC the same data they currently get. In the future, of course, it will allow them to data mine.

I attended the HMRC developer launch event for the public beta. HMRC were asked a direct question about capturing transactional data. Their answer was that there are no plans do this and it would require legislation.

Edited by plasticpig on Wednesday 17th October 09:44

[PurpleMoonlight]

plasticpig said:

I attended the HMRC developer launch event for the public beta. HMRC were asked a direct question about capturing transactional data. Their answer was that it there are no plans do this and it would require legislation.

Do you believe them?

[plasticpig]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Do you believe them?

Yes. I am not saying it won't happen eventually but I can't see it happening in the next 5 years or so. The new API is not able to allow the voluntary submission of supplementary data yet. IIRC the deadline for that going live is October next year.

[LeighW]

plasticpig said:

I attended the HMRC developer launch event for the public beta. HMRC were asked a direct question about capturing transactional data. Their answer was that there are no plans do this and it would require legislation.

If that's the case, then can somebody please tell me what the actual bloody point of all this is?

[plasticpig]

LeighW said:

If that's the case, then can somebody please tell me what the actual bloody point of all this is?

It's mostly to do with this: https://hmrcdigital.blog.gov.uk/2016/02/12/our-vis...

[paulrockliffe]

PurpleMoonlight said:

plasticpig said:

I attended the HMRC developer launch event for the public beta. HMRC were asked a direct question about capturing transactional data. Their answer was that it there are no plans do this and it would require legislation.

Do you believe them?

One of the joys of the British Legal system is that you don't have to decide whether you believe them or not, you can go and look at the legislation yourself and decide for yourself.

[jammy-git]

paulrockliffe said:

One of the joys of the British Legal system is that you don't have to decide whether you believe them or not, you can go and put yourself through law school, look at the legislation yourself and decide for yourself.

EFA