Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
SpeckledJim said:
He holds an intolerant view - that these people should not be doing this thing.
But the party he leads, and the laws of the land, say clearly that that thing is perfectly ok, and moreover, it's not ok to denigrate people who like it. A political leader saying something is wrong (or alluding as much) is denigrating it.
A more tolerant approach from him might be to have pretended there was absolutely no issue at all. He would have had to deal with his own conscience, but he wouldn't have continued the national conversation about whether there's anything up with homosexuality, which should really be over by now.
You prefer a lying politician over a religious one?But the party he leads, and the laws of the land, say clearly that that thing is perfectly ok, and moreover, it's not ok to denigrate people who like it. A political leader saying something is wrong (or alluding as much) is denigrating it.
A more tolerant approach from him might be to have pretended there was absolutely no issue at all. He would have had to deal with his own conscience, but he wouldn't have continued the national conversation about whether there's anything up with homosexuality, which should really be over by now.
Obviously if he'd voted with his conscience, he'd have damaged the cause of gay rights in the UK. So I thank him for his lies.
hyphen said:
Hayek said:
I'm a leaver and haven't got much time for the Lib Dems, but I don't think Tim Farron hates anyone. He's not a bad or nasty bloke. I expect his thinking is more along the lines of 'love the sinner, hate the sin', which of course you're also not allowed to think in 2017.
As a Christian he believes it is a sin as per the bible, but he didn't appear to treat anyone differently due to this.
So called journos kept haranguing him over it, because he was a soft touch and they could get away with it, weasels.
El stovey said:
Someone using a belief in a divine being ( a choice) as justification for their views on homosexuality is quite mad really when you think about it.
Not if you think religion, at least as TF seems to interpret his own faith, isn't quite mad.In my view it is quite mad, but religious freedoms we might otherwise defend seem to be causing us all sorts of issues, some significant, fortunately some as minor as the beliefs of a Lib Dem.
In some ways I think I've probably been too harsh on him. He was harmless enough really. With his ginger hair and his slightly surprised facial expression he always gave the impression of a 16 year old schoolboy who had just found out that the girl (or boy....this is 2017 after all) in his class who he secretly fancied liked him too. The look of a young man who is constantly thinking "should I speak to them or not?"
In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
Camoradi said:
In some ways I think I've probably been too harsh on him. He was harmless enough really. With his ginger hair and his slightly surprised facial expression he always gave the impression of a 16 year old schoolboy who had just found out that the girl (or boy....this is 2017 after all) in his class who he secretly fancied liked him too. The look of a young man who is constantly thinking "should I speak to them or not?"
In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
I'm not sure that 1) or 2) have any real probability.In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
deadslow said:
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm I wonder how strong Putin would have felt our deterrent was knowing it was Tim Farron's finger on the nuclear button?
Now we're leaving the EU, we just a tiny piece of s
t so far as Putin is concerned. Nothing.You use a weapon against someone else, even if they don't get their shot off before yours hits - you really think all the other parties in this fight won't have taken the metaphorical guns out of the holsters? There will be no such thing as neutral once someone has shown they are willing to use them in anger.
Its why I think its incredibly unlikely anyone ever will - not even the big orange ape in Washington*. MAD works. The whole point of nuclear weapons is that you DON'T use them. It's actually a very simple system if people just allow it to be.
- The jury is out on whether Kim Jong Un is actually genuinely unhinged or a child holding their breath in protest at something or other
Anyway....I am wandering off topic - I agree Farron isn't leadership material. I found him really quite annoying. I reckon Cable will do a solid rebuilding job and could provide a solid foundation for the election that will surely happen in the next 2 years or so.
deadslow said:
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm I wonder how strong Putin would have felt our deterrent was knowing it was Tim Farron's finger on the nuclear button?
Now we're leaving the EU, we just a tiny piece of st so far as Putin is concerned. Nothing.t'. In fact he may wish to court the UK to give the EU a problem. s2art said:
deadslow said:
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm I wonder how strong Putin would have felt our deterrent was knowing it was Tim Farron's finger on the nuclear button?
Now we're leaving the EU, we just a tiny piece of st so far as Putin is concerned. Nothing.t'. In fact he may wish to court the UK to give the EU a problem. Camoradi said:
In some ways I think I've probably been too harsh on him. He was harmless enough really. With his ginger hair and his slightly surprised facial expression he always gave the impression of a 16 year old schoolboy who had just found out that the girl (or boy....this is 2017 after all) in his class who he secretly fancied liked him too. The look of a young man who is constantly thinking "should I speak to them or not?"
In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
Carrying on from 3 above, In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
1) Founded a religious based charity doing good work in North Africa
2) Written a loosely autobiographical novel about the world of Westminster politics
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
4) Go in to partnership with Mark Oaten (former lib dem MP.....)
s2art said:
deadslow said:
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm I wonder how strong Putin would have felt our deterrent was knowing it was Tim Farron's finger on the nuclear button?
Now we're leaving the EU, we just a tiny piece of st so far as Putin is concerned. Nothing.t'. In fact he may wish to court the UK to give the EU a problem. 
blade runner said:
I think it's also fair of him to point out in his parting shot that 'tolerance' should cut both ways[/i]
You have hit the nail on the head. It is ironic that contributors who bandy around terms like 'bigot' and 'by definition intolerant' are being exactly that. I have no love for him since his bitter refusal to accept the Brexit vote BTW.deadslow said:
s2art said:
deadslow said:
Ayahuasca said:
Hmmm I wonder how strong Putin would have felt our deterrent was knowing it was Tim Farron's finger on the nuclear button?
Now we're leaving the EU, we just a tiny piece of st so far as Putin is concerned. Nothing.t'. In fact he may wish to court the UK to give the EU a problem. Camoradi said:
In the next 2-3 years I expect to hear that he has:
3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
Maaaaate you sure know how to hit this old liberal leaning sex loving guys buttons. 3) Snorted coke off a rent boy's buttocks in a layby near Chorley
That is right up there with some of my Yvette Cooper/Shami Chakrabarti ladyboy fantasies
blade runner said:
Sticking my neck out here... Although I don't rate TF as a politician, I do think he has a point to be honest.
He obviously has some strong beliefs that are integral to his faith, just like many tens of thousands of other Christians do. I think he explained it as well as he could in the last TV debate before the election, where he essentially said that as a devout Christian he holds a certain set of beliefs, but as a politician he is able to act outside these beliefs in what he considers to be the greater good of society. His voting record on the pertinent issues supports this.
I think it's also fair of him to point out in his parting shot that 'tolerance' should cut both ways.
“I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in. In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.”
bHe obviously has some strong beliefs that are integral to his faith, just like many tens of thousands of other Christians do. I think he explained it as well as he could in the last TV debate before the election, where he essentially said that as a devout Christian he holds a certain set of beliefs, but as a politician he is able to act outside these beliefs in what he considers to be the greater good of society. His voting record on the pertinent issues supports this.
I think it's also fair of him to point out in his parting shot that 'tolerance' should cut both ways.
“I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in. In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.”
ks, he got stick for refusing to answer straightforward if prurient questions about his attitudes to homosexuality. This rod was of his own making.Karl Popper wrote the paradox of tolerance:
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
John Rawls further expanded on it:
While an intolerant sect does not itself have title to complain of intolerance, its freedom should be restricted only when the tolerant sincerely and with reason believe that their own security and that of the institutions of liberty are in danger.
Michael Walzer then went further with:
"Should we tolerate the intolerant?" He notes that most minority religious groups who are the beneficiaries of tolerance are themselves intolerant, at least in some respects. In a tolerant regime, such people may learn to tolerate, or at least to behave "as if they possessed this virtue".
Farron was trying to behave as if he possessed the virtue of tolerance, he failed.
princealbert23 said:
blade runner said:
I think it's also fair of him to point out in his parting shot that 'tolerance' should cut both ways[/i]
You have hit the nail on the head. It is ironic that contributors who bandy around terms like 'bigot' and 'by definition intolerant' are being exactly that. I have no love for him since his bitter refusal to accept the Brexit vote BTW.He then expected people to tolerate his views but his views are based on his belief in a god and what he thinks his god thinks about homosexuals.
It's like me saying I hate you because you're black. Then you rightly say "you're intolerant" and I get sacked by my employer, so I say "you should all tolerate MY views" as I clear out my office. No you shouldn't. You shouldn't tolerate views that are simply bigotry.
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