tesla , the future ?
Discussion
i don't think there are lots of people looking for ev's to fail. i think there are a lot of people that think there are huge infrastructure and power supply issues to solve before we make the step to ev's being the vehicle of choice .
they are a great option as a daily commuter for those doing regular journeys to and from a place of work and those that rarely travel far. the way the average virtue signalling city council thinks these days this sector will need to expand rapidly as city bans for ice become the norm. although if the aforementioned council actually did some research they would find the "green" credentials do not stack up in a lot of areas.
once the big boys of the industry stop playing at it tesla may well be toast anyway. how in hells name they can justify the price for what they currently produce i have no idea. yes batteries are expensive, but they are basically an empty fuel tank, that currently are not up to lasting the life of the vehicle. i always thought one of the benefits of an electric car would be a drop in price from a similar spec ice vehicle as there is a huge reduction in moving parts and electronics. yes , i am a bit naive at times.
the main good news story from tesla for me is they are an american company, so at least it is not the uk tax payers buck this time.
they are a great option as a daily commuter for those doing regular journeys to and from a place of work and those that rarely travel far. the way the average virtue signalling city council thinks these days this sector will need to expand rapidly as city bans for ice become the norm. although if the aforementioned council actually did some research they would find the "green" credentials do not stack up in a lot of areas.
once the big boys of the industry stop playing at it tesla may well be toast anyway. how in hells name they can justify the price for what they currently produce i have no idea. yes batteries are expensive, but they are basically an empty fuel tank, that currently are not up to lasting the life of the vehicle. i always thought one of the benefits of an electric car would be a drop in price from a similar spec ice vehicle as there is a huge reduction in moving parts and electronics. yes , i am a bit naive at times.
the main good news story from tesla for me is they are an american company, so at least it is not the uk tax payers buck this time.
El stovey said:
As you can see above, It’s just about ideology.
Tesla = environmently friendly = lefties, BBC, liberals, Clinton, anti global warming etc etc.
Basically anything about alternative energy is part of a liberal agenda.
Tesla laying off people is like the fall of the iron curtain or the BBC getting done for being biased.
If only you managed to include the NHS. Tesla = environmently friendly = lefties, BBC, liberals, Clinton, anti global warming etc etc.
Basically anything about alternative energy is part of a liberal agenda.
Tesla laying off people is like the fall of the iron curtain or the BBC getting done for being biased.
otolith said:
There are a lot of people round here who desperately don't want to believe that widespread transition to EVs is possible.
I think they are going to be very disappointed, but we'll have to wait and see.
You may be right, but the charging issue is real, for every vehicle to have access to a charging point overnight, I cannot see how it is even vaguely possible. Look at any modern housing estate, or road in an innercity, and there are cars and vans littering pavements, council grass and cul de sac turning points everywhere. And as our cars have got physically bigger, population has increased (as well as ageing population), and multiple car ownership has become more common, it has and will just get to be more of a problem. I think they are going to be very disappointed, but we'll have to wait and see.
How ill these people charge their cars and vans? Extension flexes will be everywhere, surely?
Or are you thinking about wireless charging technology, in which case, maybe, but not universally available within the lifetime of anyone here, surely?
EVs have their uses and tech will make them more available to more people. But it is not practical and I cant see it ever will be, for everyone to have just EVs.
And if it does become possible to charge all these vehicles, how do we manage the power network requirements? We currently import a lot of electricity, will that requirement just increase? In which case, France, Russia and China, whomever we buy the electricity from, can just hold us to ransom whenever they want. Then the 2p per ile cost to run will become 20p!
I have had an EV, I am not anti them in any way, but I can only ever see them as a niche vehicle for the minority. As we become more "civilised" as a planet, people will desire more personal transport and less mass transport, they will want the security and comfort that personal transport affords. And until China can charge 500 million EVs each night, I cannot see that ICE will ever be replaced.
It may work on local levels, eg, Oxford, Londone CC zone, but everywhere? Mainland Europe, eastern Europe........How can it be done?
i do over 1k miles a week and stay away 2 or 3 nights a week. Simply not viable unless hotels start getting charging stations not noticed any.
If I get a different job with small commute then count me in would be great.
Faster charging, longer range and cheaper then all good.
But some people as usual want to pretend ph doesn't want them because right wing loons sigh.
The technology simply isn't there yet. I'm sure it will be and if other technology advances don't make it irrelevant they will be everywhere.
If I get a different job with small commute then count me in would be great.
Faster charging, longer range and cheaper then all good.
But some people as usual want to pretend ph doesn't want them because right wing loons sigh.
The technology simply isn't there yet. I'm sure it will be and if other technology advances don't make it irrelevant they will be everywhere.
300bhp/ton said:
El stovey said:
ian in lancs said:
300bhp/ton said:
...they are unlikely to ever be viable. If you don’t have a driveway, as many don’t. Then you can’t charge them at home...
Never thought of that issue before. Quite a blocker that one.I expect the best solution if you have on street parking and no street charging is to charge at Work. If that’s not available then it’s not going to be an option really.
On street Charing is also unviable unless you can offer charging points for every car. In many urban areas they can’t even offer enough parking spaces! And that ignores the cost of installing all these charging points.
otolith said:
There are a lot of people round here who desperately don't want to believe that widespread transition to EVs is possible.
I think they are going to be very disappointed, but we'll have to wait and see.
As I say. I have nothing against EV’s and I’m a convert to electric power for RC cars, planes and helicopters. Even my lawn mower is battery operated. And I probably have way more 18650 Li-ion batteries than most average households. I think they are going to be very disappointed, but we'll have to wait and see.
But the reality is. Lots and lots of people simply cannot charge an electric car at work or home. I see this in the village I live in, the nearest town and all the places I’ve worked at in the past 10 years.
If you can’t charge them. They are not fit for purpose. And lots and lots of people do drive well over 70 miles a day. Which for most of the EV’s is the practical limit of their range under good conditions.
Well I did 90 miles today, mostly motorway (although not really over 70 at all due to traffic) and still had 25% battery left before plugging in tonight.
I agree EV's will not suit all. My i3 is the petrol rex version and we also have xc60. People with no off street parking may be last to change but yo have to remember there is 20 years to develop infrastructure until government 2040 date. Battery life will be better, charging quicker and destination charging widespread.
It is even possible that cars will be autonomous and people will not own or will use cars differently, especially in cities, usually the very places where people do not have parking
I agree EV's will not suit all. My i3 is the petrol rex version and we also have xc60. People with no off street parking may be last to change but yo have to remember there is 20 years to develop infrastructure until government 2040 date. Battery life will be better, charging quicker and destination charging widespread.
It is even possible that cars will be autonomous and people will not own or will use cars differently, especially in cities, usually the very places where people do not have parking
Murph7355 said:
If replacing most ICE cars meant saving fuel for interesting ones I'm all for it 
Likewise and to be fair Teslas are pretty great machines, unlike the rest of the milk floats available. Like all threads about TSLA though it will come down those who understand the electrical infrastructure requirements of that amount of power and those who wave their hand and say more chargers will be built and everyone who disagrees is a right-wing, climate denying dinosaur... rinse and repeat. Can't we merge with the last Tesla thread?
300bhp/ton said:
As I say. I have nothing against EV’s and I’m a convert to electric power for RC cars, planes and helicopters. Even my lawn mower is battery operated. And I probably have way more 18650 Li-ion batteries than most average households.
But the reality is. Lots and lots of people simply cannot charge an electric car at work or home. I see this in the village I live in, the nearest town and all the places I’ve worked at in the past 10 years.
If you can’t charge them. They are not fit for purpose. And lots and lots of people do drive well over 70 miles a day. Which for most of the EV’s is the practical limit of their range under good conditions.
If only an organisation had researched the charging issues and suggested the idea of rapid charging locations - oh that's, right, they have.. The organisation - National Grid..But the reality is. Lots and lots of people simply cannot charge an electric car at work or home. I see this in the village I live in, the nearest town and all the places I’ve worked at in the past 10 years.
If you can’t charge them. They are not fit for purpose. And lots and lots of people do drive well over 70 miles a day. Which for most of the EV’s is the practical limit of their range under good conditions.
covmutley said:
It is even possible that cars will be autonomous and people will not own or will use cars differently, especially in cities, usually the very places where people do not have parking
The trouble is, living in Britain it’s very easy to be ignorant to the rest of the world and totally forget it exists. Reality is, autonomous cars are hugely unlikely or suitable for large parts of the globe. Even in the mid to longer term.
lol @ EV fires. They are far less common than ICE car fires and so far no one has been harmed because they happen after damage etc rather than during or starting the issue.
America has 30 vehcile fires per hour..
and so few tesla fires they are individually mentioned on wikipedia..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_veh...
Oh look half a million fords are dangerous might catch fire.
http://www.wusa9.com/features/what-s-trending/ford...
Or how about 124 deaths from a fault ignition switch?
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-i...
America has 30 vehcile fires per hour..
and so few tesla fires they are individually mentioned on wikipedia..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_veh...
Oh look half a million fords are dangerous might catch fire.
http://www.wusa9.com/features/what-s-trending/ford...
Or how about 124 deaths from a fault ignition switch?
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-i...
Blah blah electric cars, chargers, fires, infrastructure blah blah.
The problems with Tesla are nothing to do with the basic sof the cars or the same old tired arguments.
The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bulls
t that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on.
All capped by a seeming endless amount of distraction and effluent emitted from the Grand High Musk. You can tell when there are problems because he'll come out with some half thought through headline grabbing stuff (solar power for Puerto Rico, rocket trips to Mars, rocket trips around the world, digging a little tunnel) to keep people talking about something else. He's great at spinning plausible stories but the detail never holds up.
The problems with Tesla are nothing to do with the basic sof the cars or the same old tired arguments.
The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bulls
t that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on.All capped by a seeming endless amount of distraction and effluent emitted from the Grand High Musk. You can tell when there are problems because he'll come out with some half thought through headline grabbing stuff (solar power for Puerto Rico, rocket trips to Mars, rocket trips around the world, digging a little tunnel) to keep people talking about something else. He's great at spinning plausible stories but the detail never holds up.
ian in lancs said:
300bhp/ton said:
...they are unlikely to ever be viable. If you don’t have a driveway, as many don’t. Then you can’t charge them at home...
Never thought of that issue before. Quite a blocker that one.Jonesy23 said:
The problems with Tesla are nothing to do with the basic sof the cars or the same old tired arguments.
The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bullst that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on.
The model 3 is make or break everyone knows that, and soon. The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bulls
t that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on. As for self driving. There is new legislation that should see fully self driving cars (not initially tesla for sure) on the streets of USA pretty early next year.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/report-waymo-...
Waymo are gearing up for a self driving car release..
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/5-things-we-l...
RobDickinson said:
Jonesy23 said:
The problems with Tesla are nothing to do with the basic sof the cars or the same old tired arguments.
The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bullst that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on.
The model 3 is make or break everyone knows that, and soon. The problems are the issues with cashflow, profitability, regulation around their self driving efforts, their inability to get the 3 out of prototype and into series production, the bulls
t that is being issued to cloud this little problem, the Gigafactory difficulties, solar products that don't arrive, the endless endless delays with everything and so on and so on. As for self driving. There is new legislation that should see fully self driving cars (not initially tesla for sure) on the streets of USA pretty early next year.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/report-waymo-...
Waymo are gearing up for a self driving car release..
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/5-things-we-l...
" Waymo's service is likely to launch first in Chandler, a Phoenix suburb where Waymo has done extensive testing. Waymo chose the Phoenix area for its favorable weather, its wide, well-maintained streets, and the relative lack of pedestrians. Another important factor was the legal climate. Arizona has some of the nation's most permissive laws regarding self-driving vehicles."
No tech to cover heavy rain or worse, complex or dense traffic yet.
I'm sure it'll happen but doubt if it'll be at all widespread in the medium term. Happy to be proved wrong, so we'll see.
300bhp/ton said:
rscott said:
If only an organisation had researched the charging issues and suggested the idea of rapid charging locations - oh that's, right, they have.. The organisation - National Grid..
So how does that help if you can’t actually park next to one and use it??? 
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff