BLAIR, his latest intervention. Should he shut up ?
Discussion
Talksteer said:
Rovinghawk said:
Vocal Minority said:
I don't think it was the right decision......... it's happened......... we need to get on with it.
I respect that attitude.The current situation where we appear to be gearing up for the most devisive possible BREXIT after a referendum which was slimly won by one side is pretty anti democratic.
It is happening because of the lack of an opposition means that the greatest political threat to the government is from its own hardliners and their press.
As an example we are heading towards an economically damaging hard BREXIT to enable the UK to "take back control" on immigration.
If we look at polls on that most of the population minimally support that, however if you look at further polls of "how much are you willing to pay for control of immigration" the answer is nothing or very very little. Hence we should probably be heading for a Norway/Switzerland type agreement.
Given the lack of broad support for leaving the EU and the lack of an opposition to hold the government to account during the negotiations I think the terms of BREXIT should be subject to a public vote and in this area I support Blair.
Blair and others can say what they like, it won't make a jot of difference at this stage. All they're saying in effect is "it's not fair" dressed up in fancy wrapping.
The issue for some people is that his self-importance and his self-serving approach post-PM have been grating for a long time already.
Somewhere there's a Mrs Miggins of Acacia Avenue, an eloquent retired small business owner who voted Leave, a net contributor for decades who's done less harm to this country and other countries than Bliar - she doesn't get on the TV to extol the many virtues of a future outside the costly and dysfunctional EU, it's not fair etc.
Expect to see him make a few speaking appearances around Europe as the 'acceptable' face of Brexit for the rest of the continent. He used to be PM and he's saying the whole thing should be reversed, they'll enjoy listening to him.
He just reinforces my most negative impressions of the Remain camp, ie. the approach that their vote is the more well-informed one and anyone who found cause to reach a conclusion different to theirs is some sort of peasant who needs help to see how wrong they are. They fail to realise that democracy gives you a say whether people think you are a f
king idiot or not, votes that agree with your point of view don't 'count more' and the underlying suggestion that they do is starting to get downright sinister.
He just reinforces my most negative impressions of the Remain camp, ie. the approach that their vote is the more well-informed one and anyone who found cause to reach a conclusion different to theirs is some sort of peasant who needs help to see how wrong they are. They fail to realise that democracy gives you a say whether people think you are a f
king idiot or not, votes that agree with your point of view don't 'count more' and the underlying suggestion that they do is starting to get downright sinister. Edited by D-Angle on Saturday 18th February 09:42
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
Talksteer said:
As an example we are heading towards an economically damaging hard BREXIT to enable the UK to "take back control" on immigration.
All this "Hard\Soft" Brexit talk is nonsense. The vote was for a "Hard" Brexit, all of the information was available to state this before the vote, and the likes of Cameron stated this many times. danllama said:
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
You're absolutely right. I challenge anyone to show how the UK has benefitted from membership of the EU. Please don't quote various acts of legislation which were either underway anyway or could/would have happened anyway. What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
The fact remains that the EU has devastated Southern Europe and benefited no member other than Germany and the basket case Eastern economies that have been subsidised for years.
REALIST123 said:
danllama said:
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
You're absolutely right. I challenge anyone to show how the UK has benefitted from membership of the EU. Please don't quote various acts of legislation which were either underway anyway or could/would have happened anyway. What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
The fact remains that the EU has devastated Southern Europe and benefited no member other than Germany and the basket case Eastern economies that have been subsidised for years.
Jimboka said:
Deptford Draylons said:
JawKnee said:
I don't like the man but why should any one be shut up? We still live in a democracy in case you forgot.
People don't have to shut up about being a remainer and wishing the country hadn't voted to leave. If you are however someone like Farron and Blair ( and a good few on PH ) who don't like the result and wish to perform a stitch-up, then yeah, you might get told to shut up.It may have escaped your attention, but the anti brexit LDs gave the conservatives a pasting in a recent byelection & came close in the other. On the back of being the anti brexit alternative
If you are a remain person who can accept the result but say you don't think it will be a success or will cause job losses etc, then that's a perfectly valid opinion to hold and be respected. The problem being a lot of people pretend they are the latter when really they are quite happy to see the result reversed by whatever means.
LibDems are polling the same as the calamitous Ukip party at the moment at around 14%. Not exactly hoovering up the 48% of remainers. They won one oddball by-election and lost the other and won't win the two up coming by-elections either.
danllama said:
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
You want evidence! Do you mean from like experts? I through team leave did not believe experts.What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
If you want evidence read eureferendum.com. The evidence is all there a sensible Brexit should be a success.
An exit with no deal is going to be an economic disaster.
Today's post on the website is particularly interesting dealing with Brexit and lifts. I am sure all our strapping PH company directors will say let them use stairs.
Mrr T said:
You want evidence! Do you mean from like experts? I through team leave did not believe experts.
If you want evidence read eureferendum.com. The evidence is all there a sensible Brexit should be a success.
An exit with no deal is going to be an economic disaster.
Today's post on the website is particularly interesting dealing with Brexit and lifts. I am sure all our strapping PH company directors will say let them use stairs.
Lol, you've just been reading the state pension thread haven't you?If you want evidence read eureferendum.com. The evidence is all there a sensible Brexit should be a success.
An exit with no deal is going to be an economic disaster.
Today's post on the website is particularly interesting dealing with Brexit and lifts. I am sure all our strapping PH company directors will say let them use stairs.
Talksteer said:
Rovinghawk said:
Vocal Minority said:
I don't think it was the right decision......... it's happened......... we need to get on with it.
I respect that attitude.The current situation where we appear to be gearing up for the most devisive possible BREXIT after a referendum which was slimly won by one side is pretty anti democratic.
It is happening because of the lack of an opposition means that the greatest political threat to the government is from its own hardliners and their press.
As an example we are heading towards an economically damaging hard BREXIT to enable the UK to "take back control" on immigration.
If we look at polls on that most of the population minimally support that, however if you look at further polls of "how much are you willing to pay for control of immigration" the answer is nothing or very very little. Hence we should probably be heading for a Norway/Switzerland type agreement.
Given the lack of broad support for leaving the EU and the lack of an opposition to hold the government to account during the negotiations I think the terms of BREXIT should be subject to a public vote and in this area I support Blair.
That's not how democracy works. Sorry.
Mrr T said:
danllama said:
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
You want evidence! Do you mean from like experts? I through team leave did not believe experts.What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
If you want evidence read eureferendum.com. The evidence is all there a sensible Brexit should be a success.
An exit with no deal is going to be an economic disaster.
Seems you agree that it is at least possible for an exit to be a success, I completely agree and can think of a few routes overall from which we could benefit.
Now let's focus on getting the negotiations started, and letting the respective Civil Services get on with sorting out a pragmatic agreement.
Sway said:
Mrr T said:
danllama said:
Aimed at talksteer...
What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
You want evidence! Do you mean from like experts? I through team leave did not believe experts.What evidence do you have that brexit will be economically damaging? Further, what evidence do you have that brexit won't be economically a success?
What evidence do you have that the EU will not drag us into economical uncertainty? After all, its been bleeding us dry for the past decades, and on top of that fining us willy nilly. On top of that, hasn't EU growth been pretty stagnant for a long while, compared to other growing economies?
Your post is biased nonsense.
If you want evidence read eureferendum.com. The evidence is all there a sensible Brexit should be a success.
An exit with no deal is going to be an economic disaster.
Seems you agree that it is at least possible for an exit to be a success, I completely agree and can think of a few routes overall from which we could benefit.
Now let's focus on getting the negotiations started, and letting the respective Civil Services get on with sorting out a pragmatic agreement.
Gogoplata said:
Talksteer said:
As an example we are heading towards an economically damaging hard BREXIT to enable the UK to "take back control" on immigration.
All this "Hard\Soft" Brexit talk is nonsense. The vote was for a "Hard" Brexit, all of the information was available to state this before the vote, and the likes of Cameron stated this many times. We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
cayman-black said:
We should all be happy as nearly all european countries now want what we had a vote on leaving europe.
We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
If the EU breaks up, the resulting instability and lack of direction will harm European trade and to an extent world trade. Everyone will suffer. What the UK wants post exit is a stable and successful EU.We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
Derek Smith said:
cayman-black said:
We should all be happy as nearly all european countries now want what we had a vote on leaving europe.
We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
If the EU breaks up, the resulting instability and lack of direction will harm European trade and to an extent world trade. Everyone will suffer. What the UK wants post exit is a stable and successful EU.We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
It's amazing to think they ever coped before the shining light of the EU lit them up.
turbobloke said:
Derek Smith said:
cayman-black said:
We should all be happy as nearly all european countries now want what we had a vote on leaving europe.
We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
If the EU breaks up, the resulting instability and lack of direction will harm European trade and to an extent world trade. Everyone will suffer. What the UK wants post exit is a stable and successful EU.We will be in a very good position once this gets moving.
It's amazing to think they ever coped before the shining light of the EU lit them up.
The impact of hard Brexit will be negligible on those who spend 10+ hours every day glued to a car website forum.
D-Angle said:
Expect to see him make a few speaking appearances around Europe as the 'acceptable' face of Brexit for the rest of the continent. He used to be PM and he's saying the whole thing should be reversed, they'll enjoy listening to him.
He just reinforces my most negative impressions of the Remain camp, ie. the approach that their vote is the more well-informed one and anyone who found cause to reach a conclusion different to theirs is some sort of peasant who needs help to see how wrong they are. They fail to realise that democracy gives you a say whether people think you are a fking idiot or not, votes that agree with your point of view don't 'count more' and the underlying suggestion that they do is starting to get downright sinister.
Not for free I bet.He just reinforces my most negative impressions of the Remain camp, ie. the approach that their vote is the more well-informed one and anyone who found cause to reach a conclusion different to theirs is some sort of peasant who needs help to see how wrong they are. They fail to realise that democracy gives you a say whether people think you are a f
king idiot or not, votes that agree with your point of view don't 'count more' and the underlying suggestion that they do is starting to get downright sinister. Edited by D-Angle on Saturday 18th February 09:42
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