BLAIR, his latest intervention. Should he shut up ?

[Robertj21a]

mybrainhurts said:

Graemsay said:

In fact, there's recent polling evidence suggesting that Remain might be more popular now, and that demographics will be in its favour.

And another poll suggesting the EU will collapse and die.

Which is nice...

And which, to me, seems far more likely. I can only speak for those I know but, if anything, those wanting to leave are even more sure of it nowadays. The ranting from whingeing Remainers (+ that nice Tony Blair) have tended to convince others of the importance of getting out as soon as possible.

[Sway]

Derek Smith said:

WinstonWolf said:

They asked us to make the decision, we're leaving.

Yu don't understand the form of democracy we have. 'They' make the decisions. 'Us' were asked a question that was not binding. Whether we leave or not does not alter the fact that it is parliament's decision.

Our current democratic process has been in use in the UK since 1928, perhaps 1918 under some arguments. It has served us fairly well.

Politically there is little option as it stands at the moment for parliament to ignore the result of the referendum. However, there are lots of options that they might go for, some of which would, under anyone's definition, not amount to 'leaving'. Accept it 'cause that's the way it is.

There really aren't any 'options'.

The Bill, as passed by the Commons, does not give any cause for any further vote in Parliament, once accepted (or pushed through) the Lords.

Wording here: https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cb...

It really is a done deal. Virtually no chance the Lords will try to add amendments to an unamended, massively supported Bill from the Commons, and if they do even lower chances that the Commons will accept any proposed amendments.

As much as some would like it to be the case, it really isn't. The process has been followed as you've described above, and Parliament has decided that there will be no further voting.

[mybrainhurts]

Come on lads, stay on topic, this is the Tony Blair thread. Have a bit of respect...

[alfie2244]

Derek Smith said:

alfie2244 said:

So if the vote went the other way would there have been consultations with Brexiters as to the terms of staying in the EU and / or another referendum? No I thought not.

I am certain that had the vote gone the other way the pressure group of those who wanted to leave would not leave it there. Indeed, some suggested that they would continue with their campaign if the vote was to remain.

Had the mote been, for instance 52% remain then there would be massive political pressure to renegotiate to an extent.

You really believe a better deal for the UK would have been negotiated after a Remain vote?

[don'tbesilly]

alfie2244 said:

Derek Smith said:

alfie2244 said:

So if the vote went the other way would there have been consultations with Brexiters as to the terms of staying in the EU and / or another referendum? No I thought not.

I am certain that had the vote gone the other way the pressure group of those who wanted to leave would not leave it there. Indeed, some suggested that they would continue with their campaign if the vote was to remain.

Had the mote been, for instance 52% remain then there would be massive political pressure to renegotiate to an extent.

You really believe a better deal for the UK would have been negotiated after a Remain vote?

A Remain vote would have indicated agreement by the UK with the status quo as of the 23rd June, and as per Cameron's fabled concessions!
The EU wouldn't see any need or have any motivation to change anything in the UK's favour, so no chance/need of any negotiations.

[turbobloke]

don'tbesilly said:

alfie2244 said:

Derek Smith said:

alfie2244 said:

So if the vote went the other way would there have been consultations with Brexiters as to the terms of staying in the EU and / or another referendum? No I thought not.

I am certain that had the vote gone the other way the pressure group of those who wanted to leave would not leave it there. Indeed, some suggested that they would continue with their campaign if the vote was to remain.

Had the mote been, for instance 52% remain then there would be massive political pressure to renegotiate to an extent.

You really believe a better deal for the UK would have been negotiated after a Remain vote?

A Remain vote would have indicated agreement by the UK with the status quo as of the 23rd June, and as per Cameron's fabled concessions!
The EU wouldn't see any need or have any motivation to change anything in the UK's favour, so no chance/need of any negotiations.

The EU said so. Cameron's piece of paper was 'it', it was as far as they were prepared to go, and it went nowhere.

[Pacman1978]

mybrainhurts said:

http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/

How modest and humble..

50 Achievements of the Labour Party in government under Prime Minister Tony Blair

12. Removed brutal regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
49. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

Just a few of his many miracles!

I've only read the first and last pages sorry, all I wish to say is this, fk OFF YOU LYING CURRUPT ..

(adds nothing to the thread but what a massive he is)

[PurpleAki]

Good post. Back on topic.

There's plenty of other threads for general brexit/article 50 debates.

[gothatway]

Talksteer said:

3: There currently isn't a coordinated political entity representing the 48%.

I wonder how much bigger the Out vote would have been had there been a coordinated political entity representing that viewpoint.

[CaptainSlow]

Murph7355 said:

Graemsay said:

...
there's recent polling evidence suggesting that Remain might be more popular now, and that demographics will be in its favour.
....

Whilst we all know how accurate polls have been in the last 18mths, do you have links to this evidence?

I'm genuinely interested to see it, as the few bits of commentary I've seen on this topic suggest the opposite (even on outlets like the BBC).

Have we had a reply to this one yet? Or this another Remainer hoping for the non-existent "Bregret", when in fact resolve is hardening and the soft remainers are coming onside.

[CaptainSlow]

love her or hate her...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWbEB4ECiU

[Leggy]

I think he should keep his opinions to himself. Blair lost any goodwill and respect a long time ago.
If a leaver had decided he'd made a mistake and wanted to start some sort of campaign, then that would be different, but Blair is coming across as a sore loser who knows best.

[mybrainhurts]

CaptainSlow said:

love her or hate her...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROWbEB4ECiU

She can be a bit of a dummy, but she's spot on here.

[thegreenhell]

He's just upset because he can see the EU gravy train preparing to leave the platform for the last time on a one-way trip back to Brussels, and he's lost his ticket.

[Vanin]

I think Blair is suffering from the male equivalent of "Battered Woman Syndrome" where the sufferer keeps coming back for more abuse, maybe it is the only way for them to attract attention.

[mybrainhurts]

Pacman1978 said:

mybrainhurts said:

http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/

How modest and humble..

50 Achievements of the Labour Party in government under Prime Minister Tony Blair

12. Removed brutal regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
49. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

Just a few of his many miracles!

Another of his miracles...

[Vipers]

thegreenhell said:

He's just upset because he can see the EU gravy train preparing to leave the platform for the last time on a one-way trip back to Brussels, and he's lost his ticket.

That's probably the bones of it, poor sod, must be down to his last ten million.

[johnxjsc1985]

mybrainhurts said:

Another of his miracles...

his biggest achievement was to get out the day before the st hit the fan and leave Gordon Brown to clean it up as best he could.

[Stickyfinger]

johnxjsc1985 said:

his biggest achievement was to get out the day before the st hit the fan and leave Gordon Brown to clean it up as best he could.

that needed an edit:

his biggest achievement was to get out the day before the st hit the fan and leave Gordon Brown to make it considerably worse than it was going to be.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

Talksteer said:

Democracy doesn't work in any specific way. Other than that the country is governed by the consent of it's people.

Irrevocable policy should only be made by broad based support. This is why most countries with constitutions require super majorities to change them.

Anyone want to contest that.

1: The views of the 48% who voted remain should be considered in the final settlement in proportion to their numbers.

2: That having seen the terms of the deal the population should have the right to decide whether or not to go through with BREXIT, either by direct vote or via it's elected representatives.

3: There currently isn't a coordinated political entity representing the 48%.

Agreed. Nice and clear statement.

Er no. You two didn't advise Cameron on his last EU 'negotiation' did you? You don't go into a negotiation unless you're prepared to walk away or you will have your pants pulled down every single time. What incentive is there for the EU to even come to any agreement ever, let alone a mutually beneficial one? Think about it.