Uber and VAT

[Alpinestars]

JPJPJP said:

Yes.

It does seem odd that Uber is, seemingly, not even being looked at by HMRC (according to an interpretation of its witness statements) when considerable efforts are made (rightly of course) to pursue and prosecute smaller schemes

e.g. http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue-customs-hm... in which a £57,563.35 VAT fraud resulted in 2 years and 3 months in prison

We don't know it's not being looked at. All we know is that at the time of the witness statement made by Uber, and if it's true, no assessments had been raised. If questions are being asked, it extends the enquiry period.

[Sheepshanks]

JPJPJP said:

Yes.

It does seem odd that Uber is, seemingly, not even being looked at by HMRC (according to an interpretation of its witness statements) when considerable efforts are made (rightly of course) to pursue and prosecute smaller schemes

e.g. http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue-customs-hm... in which a £57,563.35 VAT fraud resulted in 2 years and 3 months in prison

To be fair, as Uber wasn't set up specifically for the purposes of perpetrating a VAT fraud, that's not a reasonable comparison.

[Mandat]

JPJPJP said:

Yes.

It does seem odd that Uber is, seemingly, not even being looked at by HMRC (according to an interpretation of its witness statements) when considerable efforts are made (rightly of course) to pursue and prosecute smaller schemes

e.g. http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue-customs-hm... in which a £57,563.35 VAT fraud resulted in 2 years and 3 months in prison

How was the actual scam carried out, as the article seems to omit this?

[anonymous-user]

Mandat said:

How was the actual scam carried out, as the article seems to omit this?

I don't know, but at a guess there were never any pants purchased

[Sheepshanks]

Mandat said:

How was the actual scam carried out, as the article seems to omit this?

Google VAT carousel or missing trader fraud. HMRC just pay out based on paperwork and it can take a while to realise all is not what it seems. I guess the clever part is not getting caught.

[Alpinestars]

Sheepshanks said:

Mandat said:

How was the actual scam carried out, as the article seems to omit this?

Google VAT carousel or missing trader fraud. HMRC just pay out based on paperwork and it can take a while to realise all is not what it seems. I guess the clever part is not getting caught.

That normally involves fraud where no input VAT is charged, eg, intra EU.

This one might involve a reclaim of input VAT in period 1, where no sales are made, subsequently charging VAT on sales, but not paying the output VAT over to HMRC.

[Sheepshanks]

Alpinestars said:

That normally involves fraud where no input VAT is charged, eg, intra EU.

This one might involve a reclaim of input VAT in period 1, where no sales are made, subsequently charging VAT on sales, but not paying the output VAT over to HMRC.

He didn't make any sales. There's not much detail anywhere but seems he basically pretended he'd imported stuff VAT paid, and reclaimed the VAT. His brief (no pun intended) did say it wasn't a very sophisticated fraud.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/fraud...

[Glade]

They have descended to new lows tonight.

[CoolHands]

Well surely you would walk that? Am I due a parrot.

[anonymous-user]

Maugham chatting with "The Artist Tax Driver" on the subject of Uber and VAT

And does not really hedge his bets on the strength of his case, or on why HMRC has not done anything sooner

https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/926361840191...

[Police State]

I see Cameron has found a job with uber's payment partner...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/09/d...

[Blue Oval84]

CoolHands said:

Well surely you would walk that? Am I due a parrot.

You can't walk to the pickup point, the driver must go to you. He's requested to be picked up exactly on the westbound side of The Headrow near the junction with New Briggate, there's a one way system in place so the driver has to go round the block a bit to get there (he can't just U-turn and come back down New Briggate). The only bit that seems odd is that the sat nav route has indicated the driver should go all the way up to the roundabout and back down The Headrow, rather than turning right off Vicar Lane.

I'm a bit confused as to what the new low is to be honest

[Glade]

(The route looks like a willy)

Too abstract?

[Blue Oval84]

Glade said:

(The route looks like a willy)

Too abstract?

I actually had considered that, but then thought it was missing the balls so surely that's not what he meant.

Now that I've had a couple of drinks I actually think you're definitely right!

[anonymous-user]

Uber has lost the appeal against the employment tribunal decision

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a0...

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th November 11:11

[anonymous-user]

Even Dinah couldn't win that one, but she is going to have a pop in the Court of Appeal.

[Sa Calobra]

JPJPJP said:

Uber has lost the appeal against the employment tribunal decision

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a0...

Edited by JPJPJP on Friday 10th November 11:11

Damn good decision. Punters don't care as long as they have their convenience but staff should have proper rights.

[The Mad Monk]

JPJPJP said:

Uber has lost the appeal against the employment tribunal decision

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a0...

Edited by JPJPJP on Friday 10th November 11:11

Does this mean that minicab firms up and down the country have now got to start giving holiday pay to their drivers?

[anonymous-user]

That depends on the organisation of the firms. Uber argues that it is just an app and not a transport service. The Tribunals have thus far disagreed. Some mini cab firms might be genuine owner driver self employed set ups, other may be more like Uber.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th November 14:53

[The Mad Monk]

Breadvan72 said:

That depends on the organisation of the firms. Uber argue that it is just an app and not a transport service, The Tribunals have thus far disagreed. Some mini cab firms might be genuine owner driver self employed set ups, other may be more like Uber.

Which setup makes the companies more or less liable?