Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[glazbagun]

Yeah I think the trouble is that the "vote Labour 'cos they give you more dole money" lot have switched to the SNP. That makes it an uphill sttuggle for any other party using reason or policy in the vain hope of getting elected in many seats.

[r11co]

glazbagun said:

Yeah I think the trouble is that the "vote Labour 'cos they give you more dole money" lot have switched to the SNP.

[Hainey]

Ah but it's 'civic nationalism' and somehow thats different and acceptable.

Although the SNP campaigner who called me a 'Brit bd' in the street at the last referendum because I had an old issue jacket on with the Union flag on the shoulder didn't seem to identify with that sort of nationalism. Odd that. Charming chap he was. Poor soul was also struck with acute memory loss when asked in an admittedly robust manner if he'd like to repeat his statement.

Ah well. Dafties gonna be Dafties. It was ever thus.

[Strocky]

hidetheelephants said:

Strocky said:

the SNP manifesto was very clear,(it even helpfully gave Brexit as an example of material change for the hard of thinking)

As you well know the STV system was designed by Dewar & Blair to ensure no one party had a clear majority therefore that's why the Greens offered their long standing support

No amount of whatabouterry or gymnastic semantics changes the cold hard facts and idiotic arguments like the SNP only getting 52 WM MP's in the snap election would mean the end of the independence arguement should be treated with the same contempt that Theresa May and her one Scottish MP has for the Scottish electorate

As you clearly don't know it's not STV, it's the D'Hondt system. STV is strictly for cooncillors.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Wednesday 19th April 19:59

Your right, got my erections mixed up, there's be so many it's just too exhausting
The point I was making remains valid, a majority government in Holyrood is as unlikely as a coalition government in Westminster

[Strocky]

A wee test to see how many closet SNP supporters are on here

http://uk.isidewith.com/

[r11co]

Strocky said:

The point I was making remains valid, a majority government in Holyrood is as unlikely as a coalition government in Westminster.

That was regarded as a good thing by all concerned at the time though - grass is always greener and all that. My point still stands though - you stand or fall by the election system you run under, and you don't hear the SNP high-rankers talking about democratic deficits anymore, especialy since the 2015 general election.

[andy_s]

Strocky said:

A wee test to see how many closet SNP supporters are on here

http://uk.isidewith.com/

I was actually quite aligned, unfortunately independence is fantasy land stuff, and that's their downfall for me; well, that and promises vs reality, policy vs action and a general lack of faith in their competence - which, I hasten to add, isn't unique to the SNP.

What have they done since 2014 to demonstrate what they hope to do post-independence? Nothing, just wind n' pish.

[NRS]

Strocky said:

A wee test to see how many closet SNP supporters are on here

http://uk.isidewith.com/

SNP are number 6 on my list, with 56%...

But to be honest I don't think it would matter much if I agreed with them, as I view their aim as being independence at all costs. So they aren't focusing much on their policies that they put out, just blaming everyone else until they get independence.

[Strocky]

r11co said:

That was regarded as a good thing by all concerned at the time though - grass is always greener and all that. My point still stands though - you stand or fall by the election system you run under, and you don't hear the SNP high-rankers talking about democratic deficits anymore, especialy since the 2015 general election.

And you only hear Blairites & Unionists complain about FPTP since 2015, what changed?

[Anglade]

Interesting polling numbers starting to come out re: the General Election and Scotland;

https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/8559191...

If this happens it could translate to an additional 12 Tory seats in Scotland.

I think Sturgeon will be regretting calling for another referendum very soon...

[Strocky]

Anglade said:

Interesting polling numbers starting to come out re: the General Election and Scotland;

https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/8559191...

If this happens it could translate to an additional 12 Tory seats in Scotland.

I think Sturgeon will be regretting calling for another referendum very soon...

The two polls that have indicated Scottish sample size have been 119 & 174, not even close to representation

For what it's worth I can see the Tories winning 7 or 8 seats up here, not that it changes the answer to the constitutional question in any way, shape or form

[NoNeed]

Strocky said:

The two polls that have indicated Scottish sample size have been 119 & 174, not even close to representation

For what it's worth I can see the Tories winning 7 or 8 seats up here, not that it changes the answer to the constitutional question in any way, shape or form

True, NO is still NO.

[Strocky]

NoNeed said:

rue, NO is still NO.

Funnily enough after the rape clause cockup by wee Ruth the mooth that's nearly the scots Tories slogan campaign

TBF the Phillp J Fry aka Walt Disney gambit is a bold one by the Unionist bottom feeder demographic even by their standards

[Anglade]

Strocky said:

The two polls that have indicated Scottish sample size have been 119 & 174, not even close to representation

For what it's worth I can see the Tories winning 7 or 8 seats up here, not that it changes the answer to the constitutional question in any way, shape or form

The poll I was referencing has a sample size of 1,029

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/tory-r...

Sunday Times said:

Scotland’s once “toxic Tories” are poised for a remarkable general election breakthrough which could derail the SNP’s independence campaign, according to an exclusive poll for The Sunday Times.The Panelbase survey of 1,029 voters in Scotland — the first Scottish poll since Theresa May called a snap election — points to a surge in support that would take the Conservatives to 33%, up 18 points from two years ago.

It amounts to their strongest showing north of the border since the days of Sir Edward Heath’s government in the 1970s

Edited by Anglade on Sunday 23 April 01:28

[Strocky]

Anglade said:

The poll I was referencing has a sample size of 1,029

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/tory-r...

Based on all tonights polls that one has been an outlier, would have to see how the polling questions have been phrased to get an overall feel

However Prof Curtis extrapolates that into 12 seats for the Tories in Scotland, quite how that foils independence, you'd have to ask a grown up or the Times sub editor

[pingu393]

Strocky said:

Anglade said:

The poll I was referencing has a sample size of 1,029

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/tory-r...

Based on all tonights polls that one has been an outlier, would have to see how the polling questions have been phrased to get an overall feel

However Prof Curtis extrapolates that into 12 seats for the Tories in Scotland, quite how that foils independence, you'd have to ask a grown up or the Times sub editor

Any Tory increase in Scotland should be seen as a kick in the Nicolas after what she has been saying about them. In reality, as long as the SNP (or the "Progressive Alliance") have a majority of any measure, the two fishes will use that as justification to have another referendum.

[r11co]

Strocky said:

Funnily enough after the rape clause cockup by wee Ruth....

Christ on a bike! More SNP narrative soundbite bullst. There is no 'rape clause' cockup - pure hyperbole spun by the SNats, another 'Red Tories' fabrication designed to tarnish the opposition in the minds of the impressionable voters who don't look too deeply into things.

IF a SNat has a problem with the welfare reforms they should be minded that they are now a devolved issue, therefor if they come into force in Scotland it is as a result of the BACKING of the sitting Scottish Government ergo entirely at the door of the Nats.

[Alpacaman]

r11co said:

Strocky said:

Funnily enough after the rape clause cockup by wee Ruth....

Christ on a bike! More SNP narrative soundbite bullst. There is no 'rape clause' cockup - pure hyperbole spun by the SNats, another 'Red Tories' fabrication designed to tarnish the opposition in the minds of the impressionable voters who don't look too deeply into things.

IF a SNat has a problem with the welfare reforms they should be minded that they are now a devolved issue, therefor if they come into force in Scotland it is as a result of the BACKING of the sitting Scottish Government ergo entirely at the door of the Nats.

To me this is the SNP dragging politics to it's lowest possible level. To try and totally misrepresent a policy and use it as a personal attack against someone, particularly with something as vile as rape, is one of the most disgusting things a political party can do, but then it's all about distracting people from their crap record and their supporters are too dim to look any further than the headlines.

[Strocky]

r11co said:

Christ on a bike! More SNP narrative soundbite bullst. There is no 'rape clause' cockup - pure hyperbole spun by the SNats, another 'Red Tories' fabrication designed to tarnish the opposition in the minds of the impressionable voters who don't look too deeply into things.

IF a SNat has a problem with the welfare reforms they should be minded that they are now a devolved issue, therefor if they come into force in Scotland it is as a result of the BACKING of the sitting Scottish Government ergo entirely at the door of the Nats.

Let's review the timeline, Sturgeon calls out the DWP in the states, Glenn Campbell tweets but doesn't report it on that nights Reporting Scotland, wee Ruth hides under the covers for a couple of days, then issues a statement via a spokesperson, disappears off Twitter/TV for another couple of days before she comes up with the hypocrisy angle and suddenly appears acting like a puffed up Yorkshire Terrier on Reporting Scotland for an interview who finally acknowledge the political fall-out

It was a cockup form beginning to end and gave every other party in Holyrood an open goal

Regarding mitigating it, all that means is the Scottish Tax payer has to pay twice for an ill thought out piece of civil service beuacracy

Are you in favour of a 2 child limit on child benefits?

[Strocky]

Alpacaman said:

To me this is the SNP dragging politics to it's lowest possible level. To try and totally misrepresent a policy and use it as a personal attack against someone, particularly with something as vile as rape, is one of the most disgusting things a political party can do, but then it's all about distracting people from their crap record and their supporters are too dim to look any further than the headlines.

And others will simply not countenance any criticism of their particular horse in the race