Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[Strocky]

gofasterrosssco said:

You must be happy with that being pro-EU..

Happier still at the contortions of the Tory 13 will have to come up with their voice of Scotland in WM guff and seeing if Fluffy & Mooth will actually follow through on their resignation "threats"

Some interesting data on collected by Greenpeace on the makeup of the fishing industry

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/press-releases/uncov...

Edited by Strocky on Wednesday 14th November 14:32

[Strocky]

A true stateswoman opines

https://twitter.com/kathsamsonitv/status/106268409...

[technodup]

Strocky said:

A true stateswoman

[gofasterrosssco]

Strocky said:

gofasterrosssco said:

You must be happy with that being pro-EU..

Happier still at the contortions of the Tory 13 will have to come up with their voice of Scotland in WM guff and seeing if Fluffy & Mooth will actually follow through on their resignation "threats"

Some interesting data on collected by Greenpeace on the makeup of the fishing industry

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/press-releases/uncov...

Edited by Strocky on Wednesday 14th November 14:32

You've side-stepped the (obvious) point - you'd rather leave the fishing industry as per status quo (at the whim of the EU), where as at least a much higher degree of control would revert to the UK fishing industry.

Regardless, the details haven't been published, so unsure how anything definitive can be asserted at this stage.

[gofasterrosssco]

Strocky said:

A true stateswoman opines

https://twitter.com/kathsamsonitv/status/106268409...

To summarize the latest pot / kettle moment:

Competing with NI for investment and jobs = bad / devastating
Competing with rUK for investment and jobs = Great / easy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

[Strocky]

gofasterrosssco said:

To summarize the latest pot / kettle moment:

Competing with NI for investment and jobs = bad / devastating
Competing with rUK for investment and jobs = Great / easy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

You're missing the obvious point, that the Union is great, the Union is wonderful and has Scotland's interests at heart guff

Off course if your independent, it's every man for himself but at least you control your own economy

[technodup]

Strocky said:

Off course if your independent,

Fortunately we chose not to go off course.

[AstonZagato]

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

[Edinburger]

Helicopter123 said:

ellroy said:

Helicopter123 said:

I does seem unfair that Northern Ireland will potentially have a competitive advantage of Scotland post-Brexit, especially as we voted 62-38 to stay in the EU.

I'm no fan of the SNP but can see why they are so angry this morning.

I think you'd probably not want to swap the advantage for the reason that they are likely to have it though......

100% agree.

Good points.

[gofasterrosssco]

Strocky said:

gofasterrosssco said:

To summarize the latest pot / kettle moment:

Competing with NI for investment and jobs = bad / devastating
Competing with rUK for investment and jobs = Great / easy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...

You're missing the obvious point, that the Union is great, the Union is wonderful and has Scotland's interests at heart guff

Off course if your independent, it's every man for himself but at least you control your own economy

No one really says the Union is great. It's pretty important part in maintaining the health of the Scottish economy, however.

You control your economy, but that's of little use if your economy and associated government income has few options when its significantly damaged by introducing barriers to its most important partner..

Which is my point - one is 'really bad' but the other is 'nah its fine / pretty good'.. Can you not see this blatant contradiction?

[Vanden Saab]

AstonZagato said:

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

Genius

[foreright]

AstonZagato said:

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

That is genius

[hidetheelephants]

Vanden Saab said:

AstonZagato said:

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

Genius

Certainly not, the ulster unionists are a miserable bunch of extremist religious bigots; we've got enough of those without importing them from other places.

[Leithen]

hidetheelephants said:

Vanden Saab said:

AstonZagato said:

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

Genius

Certainly not, the ulster unionists are a miserable bunch of extremist religious bigots; we've got enough of those without importing them from other places.

I preferred the Full Greek Independence option.

Using Scotland's vast, near unlimited oil wealth, it gained independence and immediately bought Greece.

In one fell swoop, it gains EU membership, gives every Scot the one thing they crave - Sun, and all that is required is a few sheep farmers to keep the grass cut at home and a ready supply of Venezuelans to man the oil rigs.

What could possibly have gone wrong?

Something to do with us being broke?

[Strocky]

AstonZagato said:

Has no-one suggested the obvious solution? Resettle all the Scottish Nationalists in Northern Ireland and rename Northern Ireland "Scotland". Take all the Unionists and put them in Scotland. Call that "Northern Ireland". Have "Scotland" in the EU and the border in the Irish Sea.

Everybody would be happy.

Theresa May to reception please, Theresa May to reception

[Strocky]

gofasterrosssco said:

No one really says the Union is great. It's pretty important part in maintaining the health of the Scottish economy, however.

You control your economy, but that's of little use if your economy and associated government income has few options when its significantly damaged by introducing barriers to its most important partner..

Which is my point - one is 'really bad' but the other is 'nah its fine / pretty good'.. Can you not see this blatant contradiction?

The Scottish economy is constrained and bound by the Union's economy

Oil has unwritten the UK's balance of payments for decades, don't believe me, believe that well kent Nat, Alistair Darling


rUK imports more than it exports to Scotland and based on the proposed Brexit deal that would be the partner that still has access to the EU single market?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&amp...

On a purely simplistic level, yeah, I can sort of see your point, however you are comparing apples with oranges IMHO
NI also has another economic advantage over Scotland in that it can set its own corporation tax rate (it's currently 12.5% vs 19% UK)

One thing that is certain, IF the proposed deal passes and NI started taking inward investment away from the Scotland and the Scottish Economy faltered as a result, do you think those of the Unionist bent would be sanguine about it and say, don't worry about it, we understand the reason why or would they use it as a stick to beat the Scottish Gov and Indy Supporters over the head with?

[Strocky]

Leithen said:

I preferred the Full Greek Independence option.

Using Scotland's vast, near unlimited oil wealth, it gained independence and immediately bought Greece.

In one fell swoop, it gains EU membership, gives every Scot the one thing they crave - Sun, and all that is required is a few sheep farmers to keep the grass cut at home and a ready supply of Venezuelans to man the oil rigs.

What could possibly have gone wrong?

Something to do with us being broke?

If you can't borrow, how can you be broke?
Especially when you give your paypacket to someone else to start with??

[Leithen]

Strocky said:

If you can't borrow, how can you be broke?
Especially when you give your paypacket to someone else to start with??

I you can't see past dogma, how can you objectively analyse anything?

Especially when you give your reasoning to someone else to start with?



Ps. The whole Buy Greece thing - it was a joke.

[Strocky]

Leithen said:

I you can't see past dogma, how can you objectively analyse anything?

Especially when you give your reasoning to someone else to start with?



Ps. The whole Buy Greece thing - it was a joke.

I'll take the woosh parrot

[gofasterrosssco]

Strocky said:

gofasterrosssco said:

No one really says the Union is great. It's pretty important part in maintaining the health of the Scottish economy, however.

You control your economy, but that's of little use if your economy and associated government income has few options when its significantly damaged by introducing barriers to its most important partner..

Which is my point - one is 'really bad' but the other is 'nah its fine / pretty good'.. Can you not see this blatant contradiction?

The Scottish economy is constrained and bound by the Union's economy

Oil has unwritten the UK's balance of payments for decades, don't believe me, believe that well kent Nat, Alistair Darling

rUK imports more than it exports to Scotland and based on the proposed Brexit deal that would be the partner that still has access to the EU single market?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&amp...

On a purely simplistic level, yeah, I can sort of see your point, however you are comparing apples with oranges IMHO
NI also has another economic advantage over Scotland in that it can set its own corporation tax rate (it's currently 12.5% vs 19% UK)

One thing that is certain, IF the proposed deal passes and NI started taking inward investment away from the Scotland and the Scottish Economy faltered as a result, do you think those of the Unionist bent would be sanguine about it and say, don't worry about it, we understand the reason why or would they use it as a stick to beat the Scottish Gov and Indy Supporters over the head with?

In what way is Scotlands economy 'constrained' by the UK's economy? The main restriction (if you want to call it that) for Scottish businesses exporting has been the EU, as they have generally set the terms for over-seas trade agreements. Additionally bound by EU regs, which supersede UK / Scottish regs..

Of course oil has under-written UK spending - its a UK resource..

I think NI is a special case for a number of reasons (reasons which the SNP and other nats seem consciously oblivious) - it shares a land border with an EU country, much of its trade is with an EU country, it has a barely functional political system currently, its suffered violence for decades, killing thousands, with its peace process seemingly on edge at certain points, and is in competition with a low-tax / low spending neighbour down the road.

To suggest Scotland and NI are directly comparable and should be afforded the same flexibility, is stupid IMO. Not that I disagree that all parts of the UK should be treated equally, but there has to be a dose of reality added.

I presume NI has separate corporation tax levels, as its nearest, larger neighbour (RoI) has comparatively low tax levels, making it potentially uncompetitive. Also why it attracts the greatest level of subsidy in the UK per head. I'm sure lower tax is not something 'progressive' socialist types would agree with, but that's often what happens when you're in competition with your larger, lower-tax neighbour..

I dunno, but I doubt we will see major floods of inward investment into NI over other parts of the UK, especially as backstop implies a level of future uncertainty for the region.