Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
B210bandit said:
Business does not support big taxes nor regulation. If you'd read the FT over the years you would know that. This is like that fool Johnson's "f
k business".
It's absolutely fk business". k all to do with 'fk business'. I come from a family of business owners and am one myself.Big business doesn't ostensibly support regulation, but they benefit from it. There are many areas of regulation which favour the big boys, from access to lending, tender processes, H&S, staffing etc. We regularly get invites to tender which I routinely ignore because the process is such a ballache. We are very likely to be more competitive than the big boys, but that competition is suppressed by regulatory conditions to the extent we don't even compete. (Plus the onerous payment terms I wouldn't even consider but that's another story).
There's a reason all the corporates are in favour of the EU. It's not because they are raving lefties, or don't want to make money. It's because they enjoy the comfort of certainty, the lack of being challenged, and of course in many cases the lovely funding or work they dish out. Which is a pretty statist position imo.
As it happens though there's every chance that this year I'll be suckling away on the teat of government money, via one of the big boys I mention. There's more than one way to skin the taxpayer cat.
Edinburger said:
I'm not asking about having legal authority to hold a referendum, as you well know.
In which case you don't understand why your question is moot.Sturgeon CANNOT announce another indyref, so stop asking when she is likely to - the answer under the current law is NEVER. PERIOD. Ask your dumb question a third time and you will get the same answer, because there only is that answer.
If the law changes THEN the answer might be different.
NoNeed said:
The Iron is hot, if she wants to take full advantage of the Brexit chaos she needs to speak soon, the HoC is in total disarray, the government lacks any authority or credibility, she will never have a better opportunity.
If she were to break with character (because while she's politically misguided she ain't stupid) and go constitutionally rogue (unlikely as she's already slapped down Depute Brown for flapping his gums about the possibility) then all of a sudden UK politics and media would have a focus because we'd have our very own Catalan rebellion on our hands with all the criminal activity that entails (and if you want to know the EU's stance on that read and weep.)
technodup said:
There's a reason all the corporates are in favour of the EU. It's not because they are raving lefties, or don't want to make money. It's because they enjoy the comfort of certainty, the lack of being challenged, and of course in many cases the lovely funding or work they dish out. Which is a pretty statist position imo.
Substitute civil service for corporates in the above statement and it applies equally.
Anyway, in other news Bully Blackford once again is demonstrated to be a hypocrite and liar. No wonder he didn't like it when Charles Kennedy publicised his financial connections. It must be hard to maintain a fake public image ('humble crofter' my arse) when the truth keeps getting revealed.
He really is a truly awful person. Other politicians may be incompetent, have feet of clay or are desperate to keep skeletons in the cupboard, but Blackford caps them all for oafishness and outright deception justified by a misplaced sense of self-righteousness. He would give Vaz a run for his money.
Edited by Evercross on Monday 8th April 09:23
technodup said:
t's absolutely fk all to do with 'fk business'. I come from a family of business owners and am one myself.
Big business doesn't ostensibly support regulation, but they benefit from it. There are many areas of regulation which favour the big boys, from access to lending, tender processes, H&S, staffing etc. We regularly get invites to tender which I routinely ignore because the process is such a ballache. We are very likely to be more competitive than the big boys, but that competition is suppressed by regulatory conditions to the extent we don't even compete. (Plus the onerous payment terms I wouldn't even consider but that's another story).
There's a reason all the corporates are in favour of the EU. It's not because they are raving lefties, or don't want to make money. It's because they enjoy the comfort of certainty, the lack of being challenged, and of course in many cases the lovely funding or work they dish out. Which is a pretty statist position imo.
As it happens though there's every chance that this year I'll be suckling away on the teat of government money, via one of the big boys I mention. There's more than one way to skin the taxpayer cat.
the 40 - 50,000 lobbyists in brussels aren't there for the fun of it either. politicians and bureaucrats can be quite handy when you want legislation shaped a certain way to benefit certain organisations. k all to do with 'fk business'. I come from a family of business owners and am one myself.Big business doesn't ostensibly support regulation, but they benefit from it. There are many areas of regulation which favour the big boys, from access to lending, tender processes, H&S, staffing etc. We regularly get invites to tender which I routinely ignore because the process is such a ballache. We are very likely to be more competitive than the big boys, but that competition is suppressed by regulatory conditions to the extent we don't even compete. (Plus the onerous payment terms I wouldn't even consider but that's another story).
There's a reason all the corporates are in favour of the EU. It's not because they are raving lefties, or don't want to make money. It's because they enjoy the comfort of certainty, the lack of being challenged, and of course in many cases the lovely funding or work they dish out. Which is a pretty statist position imo.
As it happens though there's every chance that this year I'll be suckling away on the teat of government money, via one of the big boys I mention. There's more than one way to skin the taxpayer cat.
wc98 said:
the 40 - 50,000 lobbyists in brussels aren't there for the fun of it either. politicians and bureaucrats can be quite handy when you want legislation shaped a certain way to benefit certain organisations.
Exactly, and it's that cosy cabal that big business loves. SME's make up something like 97% of businesses, yet the other 3% are the ones with the power and influence.There's a big difference between the 'business' the FT supports, and the businesses that support UK plc.
Well she’s right.
Even the letters on the Scottish government website say the same thing, they have been on there for nearly 5 years now....
Someone should tell the humble arms dealer that.
https://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternal...
Even the letters on the Scottish government website say the same thing, they have been on there for nearly 5 years now....
Someone should tell the humble arms dealer that.
https://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternal...
Edited by A.J.M on Thursday 11th April 14:20
Strocky said:
Again, what point are you making?You keep making one liners and leaving a link.
May is right, if Scotland leaves the UK it won’t be part of the EU, this has been covered many times.
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
I'm not asking about having legal authority to hold a referendum, as you well know.
In which case you don't understand why your question is moot.Sturgeon CANNOT announce another indyref, so stop asking when she is likely to - the answer under the current law is NEVER. PERIOD. Ask your dumb question a third time and you will get the same answer, because there only is that answer.
If the law changes THEN the answer might be different.
NoNeed said:
The Iron is hot, if she wants to take full advantage of the Brexit chaos she needs to speak soon, the HoC is in total disarray, the government lacks any authority or credibility, she will never have a better opportunity.
If she were to break with character (because while she's politically misguided she ain't stupid) and go constitutionally rogue (unlikely as she's already slapped down Depute Brown for flapping his gums about the possibility) then all of a sudden UK politics and media would have a focus because we'd have our very own Catalan rebellion on our hands with all the criminal activity that entails (and if you want to know the EU's stance on that read and weep.)
technodup said:
There's a reason all the corporates are in favour of the EU. It's not because they are raving lefties, or don't want to make money. It's because they enjoy the comfort of certainty, the lack of being challenged, and of course in many cases the lovely funding or work they dish out. Which is a pretty statist position imo.
Substitute civil service for corporates in the above statement and it applies equally.
Anyway, in other news Bully Blackford once again is demonstrated to be a hypocrite and liar. No wonder he didn't like it when Charles Kennedy publicised his financial connections. It must be hard to maintain a fake public image ('humble crofter' my arse) when the truth keeps getting revealed.
He really is a truly awful person. Other politicians may be incompetent, have feet of clay or are desperate to keep skeletons in the cupboard, but Blackford caps them all for oafishness and outright deception justified by a misplaced sense of self-righteousness. He would give Vaz a run for his money.
Edited by Evercross on Monday 8th April 09:23
Quite simple really, if the result was 60-40 in favour of leavimg could the UK refuse to honour that after persuing a lesser brexit one?
We live in strange times, the political landscape is shifting on not only never before seen, but never thought possible.
NoNeed said:
She could call a referendum if she wants, it would then be upto the UK to either refuse or accept the result.
Quite simple really, if the result was 60-40 in favour of leavimg could the UK refuse to honour that after persuing a lesser brexit one?
Of course they would, because it wouldn't be a legitimate vote.Quite simple really, if the result was 60-40 in favour of leavimg could the UK refuse to honour that after persuing a lesser brexit one?
I think there's quite a recent precedent is there not?
May's f
king useless, but she still holds more cards than Sturgeon.Nicola has to keep flapping her gums to keep the brainwashed on side whilst trying to work out who will give Scotland the best handouts, either the UK Treasury or the EU.
If she was absolutely serious, she would perform an Ian Smith/Rhodesia stylee UDI and be done with it.
As we all know, Scotland, which actually subsidizes the rest of the UK would immediately become the land of Irn-Bru & Honey, an instant EU member and wouldn't really be 15 Billion in the hole
If she was absolutely serious, she would perform an Ian Smith/Rhodesia stylee UDI and be done with it.
As we all know, Scotland, which actually subsidizes the rest of the UK would immediately become the land of Irn-Bru & Honey, an instant EU member and wouldn't really be 15 Billion in the hole
TheRainMaker said:
Again, what point are you making?
You keep making one liners and leaving a link.
May is right, if Scotland leaves the UK it won’t be part of the EU, this has been covered many times.
If Scotland leaves the UK after it's already been forced out of the EU by the UK government that's a very different situation to trying to rejoin whilst the UK is still a member. I expect it would be far easier for an independent Scotland to rejoin after brexit as Spain wouldn't have reason to veto it.You keep making one liners and leaving a link.
May is right, if Scotland leaves the UK it won’t be part of the EU, this has been covered many times.
Would an independent Scotland have a referendum to join the EU?
Given there are over 1 million people who voted to leave it, and 1.6 million who voted to stay.
I’m sure where will be a split of snp voters who want Scotland either in or out of both U.K. and the EU.
And not everyone who wishes to remain in the EU will vote for independence.
With Sturgeon being told to not delete any correspondence with Salmond over his allegations. She may have bigger things to deal with.
Given there are over 1 million people who voted to leave it, and 1.6 million who voted to stay.
I’m sure where will be a split of snp voters who want Scotland either in or out of both U.K. and the EU.
And not everyone who wishes to remain in the EU will vote for independence.
With Sturgeon being told to not delete any correspondence with Salmond over his allegations. She may have bigger things to deal with.
Gribs said:
If Scotland leaves the UK after it's already been forced out of the EU by the UK government that's a very different situation to trying to rejoin whilst the UK is still a member. I expect it would be far easier for an independent Scotland to rejoin after brexit as Spain wouldn't have reason to veto it.
A spanish veto is the least of iScotland's worries; meeting the Copenhagen criteria would be a rude shock for a country 'reeling under economic cuts and toary austerity'.hidetheelephants said:
Gribs said:
If Scotland leaves the UK after it's already been forced out of the EU by the UK government that's a very different situation to trying to rejoin whilst the UK is still a member. I expect it would be far easier for an independent Scotland to rejoin after brexit as Spain wouldn't have reason to veto it.
A spanish veto is the least of iScotland's worries; meeting the Copenhagen criteria would be a rude shock for a country 'reeling under economic cuts and toary austerity'.hidetheelephants said:
A spanish veto is the least of iScotland's worries; meeting the Copenhagen criteria would be a rude shock for a country 'reeling under economic cuts and toary austerity'.
The economic criteria don't appear to stop them joining the EU, but do stop them joining the Euro straight away. I'm sure they'd be given time to work towards joining the Euro like other member states have been. Gribs said:
hidetheelephants said:
A spanish veto is the least of iScotland's worries; meeting the Copenhagen criteria would be a rude shock for a country 'reeling under economic cuts and toary austerity'.
The economic criteria don't appear to stop them joining the EU, but do stop them joining the Euro straight away. I'm sure they'd be given time to work towards joining the Euro like other member states have been. hidetheelephants said:
Really? The chopping of the Scottish budget to fit in the <3% deficit limit will make the pips squeak given it hovers persistently around 9%, the howls that are emitted due to 'toary' cuts will be as nothing in comparison.
It's the EU, they tend to be very flexible with the rules.Gribs said:
hidetheelephants said:
Really? The chopping of the Scottish budget to fit in the <3% deficit limit will make the pips squeak given it hovers persistently around 9%, the howls that are emitted due to 'toary' cuts will be as nothing in comparison.
It's the EU, they tend to be very flexible with the rules.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff