Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Evercross said:
...and Labour will be thinking that with toxic toaryism, when the mood swings away from the SNP in Scotland (which it will) it will fall back to them. There's not a hope in hell Labour will concede a referendum to the SNP in exchange for a coalition.
As for the whole 'self determination' thing, that still doesn't give a Scottish first minister the right to unilaterally break the law and constitution, which is precisely why Nicola couches any discussion on the possibility of the consideration of a consultation on the conditions that may precipitate the likelihood of the setting of a potential date for another referendum in the terms of a mandate from the people leading to a request for another S30 order and the granting of another temporary constitutional change.
(And before anyone mentions it again, Nicola knows she does not have one, because MSPs voting through their own policy and creating a false retrospective narrative doesn't constitute a mandate from the people).
So, as I said, Nicola won't be 'calling a referendum' anytime ever.
If the "Tartan Tory" claptrap worked for 25 odd years, how long would the narrative of Labour preferring a Tory WM Gov to a Labour Gov in power (with a similar arrangement with the SNP to the current Tory/DUP one without the need for a £2bn bung - a referendum would be the price) As for the whole 'self determination' thing, that still doesn't give a Scottish first minister the right to unilaterally break the law and constitution, which is precisely why Nicola couches any discussion on the possibility of the consideration of a consultation on the conditions that may precipitate the likelihood of the setting of a potential date for another referendum in the terms of a mandate from the people leading to a request for another S30 order and the granting of another temporary constitutional change.
(And before anyone mentions it again, Nicola knows she does not have one, because MSPs voting through their own policy and creating a false retrospective narrative doesn't constitute a mandate from the people).
So, as I said, Nicola won't be 'calling a referendum' anytime ever.
Edited by Evercross on Saturday 13th April 12:55
I'd argue that it would also affect Labour South of the border as well as have them vying with the Lib Dems for relevancy in Scotland for at least a generation
technodup said:
'd love that to happen for one reason. To see how the SNP explain away them being 'in charge' of England with literally zero votes. The usual cry of 'we get governments we didn't vote for' would ring a bit hollow.
Explain how a minority Labour Gov with a confidence and supply arrangement predicated on allowing one referendum would be the SNP being in charge of England?Bonus points for explaining away the current hypocrisy with the DUP holding the whole of the UK to ransom with just 10 MP's
Take your time
Strocky said:
simoid said:
Yes, our current negotiations are going very well as they’re so tolerant.
And nothing to do with David Davis/Raab and the Tory Gov’s incompetence How dare the EU look after their member states interests whilst ensuring the GFA agreement isn’t broken
The UK should have been able to run rings round a Parliament that needs to keep 27 member states happy, the reality is somewhat different
How many extensions have they doled out now to keep a lame duck PM in the negotiating seat?
You’re right that the Tories have f
ked up the negotiation and proved incompetent. The same applies to every party and MP that we have here and in Europe. But the E.U. hasn’t ‘looked after’ their member states’ interests. At all.
They’ve simply played their part in getting to a situation that could result in huge damage to the few viable economies amongst them.
The truth is, and it’s quite clear, that none of the politicians involved are interested in anything but their own personal and political interests.
The EU cares not for how its members fare, Southern Europe is testament to that, all they care about is the EU.
Strocky said:
Explain how a minority Labour Gov with a confidence and supply arrangement predicated on allowing one referendum would be the SNP being in charge of England?
Someone above said coalition. Not all of us spend every waking hour thinking about this pish remember.If the Tories get shot of May and get Boris this will all be moot anyway.
Can't wait to see Nicola's view on that.
biggbn said:
So...when will sturgeon call the next referendum?....??
She "calls the next referendum" every five minutes, whenever there's something happening that makes the SNP look st(which there has been a lot of lately) and they need a distraction. Never does she actually write a letter to May asking for it though.hidetheelephants said:
She "calls the next referendum" every five minutes, whenever there's something happening that makes the SNP look st(which there has been a lot of lately) and they need a distraction. Never does she actually write a letter to May asking for it though.
She’s contemplating, thinking about thinking...t(which there has been a lot of lately) and they need a distraction. Never does she actually write a letter to May asking for it though.REALIST123 said:
I’m afraid you’re missing the point.
You’re right that the Tories have fked up the negotiation and proved incompetent. The same applies to every party and MP that we have here and in Europe.
But the E.U. hasn’t ‘looked after’ their member states’ interests. At all.
They’ve simply played their part in getting to a situation that could result in huge damage to the few viable economies amongst them.
The truth is, and it’s quite clear, that none of the politicians involved are interested in anything but their own personal and political interests.
The EU cares not for how its members fare, Southern Europe is testament to that, all they care about is the EU.
I am of the opinion the EU is run by Germany for the sole benefit of Germany with France feeding on the scraps. Everybody else matters not one jot! Now, I think the EU was a great idea that got too big for its boots and is now one big social experiment that's going wrong. It should have remained as the free trade area it was created to be.You’re right that the Tories have f
ked up the negotiation and proved incompetent. The same applies to every party and MP that we have here and in Europe. But the E.U. hasn’t ‘looked after’ their member states’ interests. At all.
They’ve simply played their part in getting to a situation that could result in huge damage to the few viable economies amongst them.
The truth is, and it’s quite clear, that none of the politicians involved are interested in anything but their own personal and political interests.
The EU cares not for how its members fare, Southern Europe is testament to that, all they care about is the EU.
StescoG66 said:
I am of the opinion the EU is run by Germany for the sole benefit of Germany with France feeding on the scraps. Everybody else matters not one jot! Now, I think the EU was a great idea that got too big for its boots and is now one big social experiment that's going wrong. It should have remained as the free trade area it was created to be.
you ,me and 17 million odd others seem to hold a similar opinion 
Another hammer blow, yadda yadda yadda
Lord Kerr said:
Kerr, who supported a No vote in the Scottish independence referendum of 2014, said he's now "torn" over the question of Scottish independence, describing himself as "a depressed European and a depressed Unionist"
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/the-man-who-wrote-article-50-says-its-balls-to-say-scotlandJanluke said:
Nice to see the egotistical sociopath lose in court (again) because he isn't as clever as he thinks he is and can never accept he might be wrong.
In other legal news...
Former SNP MP Natalie McGarry sacks counsel days before embezzlement trial.
Another nationalist who thinks she's smarter than she really is. Not exactly endearing herself to the presiding judge either.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 17th April 14:23
Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:
Strocky said:
amusingduck said:
Strocky if you really want to leave you should focus your efforts on getting the whole of the UK to vote 
I'd vote for your noble cause
I'm working on it I'd vote for your noble cause
The hardcore Jocks on here ain't for turning
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