Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[Gecko1978]

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made.

Seems sensible to me.

Given the lies from the last referendum on Scottish independance and the fact Brexit has been a mess how can you believe a Scotland outside of the EU and the UK without major banks access to markets (see uk banks leaving Edinburgh for London an London firms opening offices in the EU). No currency of its own falling oil revenues, no DVLA or even satilite access (again EU denying UK access). How could this be the right time.

[andymadmak]

Gecko1978 said:

Given the lies from the last referendum on Scottish independance and the fact Brexit has been a mess how can you believe a Scotland outside of the EU and the UK without major banks access to markets (see uk banks leaving Edinburgh for London an London firms opening offices in the EU). No currency of its own falling oil revenues, no DVLA or even satilite access (again EU denying UK access). How could this be the right time.

Maybe Sturgeon is a Westminster 'plant'. If she calls a referendum and loses big style, then it's game over for the subject for another 40 years...

[Edinburger]

Gecko1978 said:

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made.

Seems sensible to me.

Given the lies from the last referendum on Scottish independance and the fact Brexit has been a mess how can you believe a Scotland outside of the EU and the UK without major banks access to markets (see uk banks leaving Edinburgh for London an London firms opening offices in the EU). No currency of its own falling oil revenues, no DVLA or even satilite access (again EU denying UK access). How could this be the right time.

Fair points, Gecko. But not insurmountable. Remember that Scotland has a share of all those things...

Persistency often gets returns in politics. A federalised UK is perhaps the answer to all grievances. In other words, a centralised national government addressing issues such as international relations, defence, etc. Local governments e.g. Holyrood, managing virtually everything else. Best of both worlds (Techno will have a fit at this suggestion).

[Alpacaman]

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made.

Seems sensible to me.

So the same old divisive nationalist rubbish she spouts on a regular basis, whilst ignoring the massive growing problems in Scotland she should be dealing with. What part of it seems sensible? More like she is trying to keep the hard core nats on side, whilst knowing she doesn't want to call a referendum as she will lose again and be out of a job.

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

I also think that there is an argument for another independence referendum - with or without a Section 30 order.

Shame there isn't the legislation for it though. About time you stopped inciting the Scottish Executive to break the law 'Burger.

The speech was as predicted, and leaves the issue as open-ended as before. Sturgeon calls out Theresa May for putting the unity of her party first in Brexit dealings, yet she has just used Scottish parliamentary time to do exactly the same thing for the SNP in advance of their conference.

I take you back to Professor Curtice - what does a Conservative Government run by an exiting Prime Minister have to lose from flatly refusing a s.30 order, bearing in mind that strong and vocal resistance to Scottish independence has seen the Conservatives reach their highest level of support in Scotland in 2 decades?

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 15:13

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made.

Seems sensible to me.

Talk about stating the fking obvious. She wants it before she loses more seats and her 'mandate'.

But what PM is going to allow it when we'll still be mired in Brexit one way or the other? Is she banking on Corbyn?

Much ado about nothing. As per.

[Edinburger]

Evercross said:

Edinburger said:

I also think that there is an argument for another independence referendum - with or without a Section 30 order.

Shame there isn't the legislation for it though. About time you stopped inciting the Scottish Executive to break the law 'Burger.

The speech was as predicted, and leaves the issue as open-ended as before. Sturgeon calls out Theresa May for putting the unity of her party first in Brexit dealings, yet she has just used Scottish parliamentary time to do exactly the same thing for the SNP in advance of their conference.

I take you back to Professor Curtice - what does a Conservative Government run by an exiting Prime Minister have to lose from flatly refusing a s.30 order, bearing in mind that strong and vocal resistance to Scottish independence has seen the Conservatives reach their highest level of support in Scotland in 2 decades?

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 24th April 15:13

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

[amusingduck]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

Not legally entitled, as I understand it

[A.J.M]

So why does leaving both the U.K. and the EU make things better?

4.4 times more trade is done with the U.K. than the EU. Figures that Holyrood publish, and the trends have shown trade with U.K. to grow.

Why is leaving our most important trading partner a good thing?

Yet joining another group that we don’t trade anywhere as much is much better?


She’s just repeating the usual pish to keep the party faithful in line.
Knowing fine well, her chance has gone and her party is at risk of getting kicked out.

[technodup]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

And we did stay in the EU. And 'Scotland' didn't vote for anything re Brexit.

And as for your other suggestion, we could have it. WM doing all the big stuff, councils doing the local stuff. Kind of what we had before. No need for Holyrood.

[HD Adam]

Edinburger said:

Here we go - Ms Sturgeon said 'Indyref2' should take place "within this parliamentary term" once the Brexit path has been determined to allow an informed choice to be made we can work out who's likely to give us the most handouts.

Seems sensible to me.

EFA

[simoid]

A.J.M said:

So why does leaving both the U.K. and the EU make things better?

4.4 times more trade is done with the U.K. than the EU. Figures that Holyrood publish, and the trends have shown trade with U.K. to grow.

Why is leaving our most important trading partner a good thing?

Yet joining another group that we don’t trade anywhere as much is much better?


She’s just repeating the usual pish to keep the party faithful in line.
Knowing fine well, her chance has gone and her party is at risk of getting kicked out.

And the harder the Brexit, the stter Scotland’s relationship with the UK will be. Totally nonsensical.

[simoid]

“The first minister told Holyrood that she would introduce legislation soon to set the rules for another vote.”

Can we sue her for not doing her job?

[Edinburger]

It's only been an hour or two and some peoples' minds are closing fast...

[andy_s]

Edinburger said:

It's only been an hour or two and some peoples' minds are closing fast...

It's been under consideration for 5 years; unless she comes out with a clear workable roadmap allied to a substantive vision for how we end up better off despite the obvious pitfalls then mine will remain 'closed until further notice'. As Goethe put it - “I hate everything that merely instructs me without augmenting or directly invigorating my activity”.

[A.J.M]

Edinburger said:

It's only been an hour or two and some peoples' minds are closing fast...

Maybe because we were asked about the issue.
And ever since the answer was given.

One group have tried to use any and every event since to justify a second go of the issue.
Since the Mantra seems to be, if you don’t like the answer, keep asking till the “correct” one is given. Very EU like that...

Still Natalie McGarry has been found guilty of embezzling over £25,600 from independence organisations.

Is this that new politics we keep hearing about?

[anonymous-user]

40 odd years to untangle the EU (in one form or another) from the UK.

300 odd years to untangle Scotland from the UK.

And the person thinking they can do that is Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP?

Riiight.

[voyds9]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

I didn't realise we voted by region, well that makes all the difference, off you go then.

[Evercross]

Edinburger said:

In 2014, Scotland was told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote no i.e. to remain within the United Kingdom. Brexit is a significant material change, which Scotland overwhelmingly voted against, and therefore the people of Scotland are entitled to reconsider our position.

And that has got f'all to do with the Scotland Act 1998 and the 2014 independence referendum.

A reminder from history - the indyref only happened because David Cameron gave it the green light. He also gave the green light for the EU referendum that the SNP so vehemently didn't want (allegedly).

Can't have it both ways?!

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

It's only been an hour or two and some peoples' minds are closing fast...

If by closed you mean against the breakup of the UK, then yes. My mind is always open to making Scotland a better place - I wish our government were too.