Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
More comedy gold from the SNP
Mr Mackay added: "Our notional deficit has fallen while public spending has increased thanks to our efforts to grow the onshore economy and the strong performance of taxes in Scotland."
But he warned that a no-deal Brexit could reduce revenues in Scotland by about £2.5bn a year - and argued that independence would allow Scotland to "unlock our full potential, allowing us to take the best decisions for Scotland".
So it's a nightmare to lose £2.5 billion due to Brexit but to lose £12.6 billion due to independence would unlock our full potential. What, our full potential to be bankrupt?
Burger you do understand that " the Scottish government says that Gers is a National Statistics publication, which means that it is "produced independently of Scottish ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Official Statistics. "
Mr Mackay added: "Our notional deficit has fallen while public spending has increased thanks to our efforts to grow the onshore economy and the strong performance of taxes in Scotland."
But he warned that a no-deal Brexit could reduce revenues in Scotland by about £2.5bn a year - and argued that independence would allow Scotland to "unlock our full potential, allowing us to take the best decisions for Scotland".
So it's a nightmare to lose £2.5 billion due to Brexit but to lose £12.6 billion due to independence would unlock our full potential. What, our full potential to be bankrupt?
Burger you do understand that " the Scottish government says that Gers is a National Statistics publication, which means that it is "produced independently of Scottish ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Official Statistics. "
Edinburger said:
Is it just me who thinks some of the GERS data is absolutely ludicrous? How real are the figures? In this forum we have debated actual v assumed income tax intake, but that should be resolved with the new 'S' tax code surely. So how can Scotland's 8.2% of the UK population create 54%-60% of the UK deficit last year? I know loads of people dispute the GERS methodology but it seems to me that this is positioned to settle political discomfort and the rise of Scottish independence rather than giving an open and transparent view of the position.
Wasn’t it the SNP that claimed GERS represented the best view of Scotland’s finances? Be that as it may GERS does have some estimated figures within it but, as far as I can make out, nothing that would skew the result significantly.Maybe, just maybe, it supports what many have been saying for a long time - Scottish independence may be OK in theory but in practice it means that Scotland would have to take a real beating on its standard of living for quite some time (many years). If that is acceptable to Scotland then fair enough but they should not fool themselves otherwise.
Alpacaman said:
More comedy gold from the SNP
Mr Mackay added: "Our notional deficit has fallen while public spending has increased thanks to our efforts to grow the onshore economy and the strong performance of taxes in Scotland."
But he warned that a no-deal Brexit could reduce revenues in Scotland by about £2.5bn a year - and argued that independence would allow Scotland to "unlock our full potential, allowing us to take the best decisions for Scotland".
So it's a nightmare to lose £2.5 billion due to Brexit but to lose £12.6 billion due to independence would unlock our full potential. What, our full potential to be bankrupt?
Burger you do understand that " the Scottish government says that Gers is a National Statistics publication, which means that it is "produced independently of Scottish ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Official Statistics. "
Yes, I do understand that.Mr Mackay added: "Our notional deficit has fallen while public spending has increased thanks to our efforts to grow the onshore economy and the strong performance of taxes in Scotland."
But he warned that a no-deal Brexit could reduce revenues in Scotland by about £2.5bn a year - and argued that independence would allow Scotland to "unlock our full potential, allowing us to take the best decisions for Scotland".
So it's a nightmare to lose £2.5 billion due to Brexit but to lose £12.6 billion due to independence would unlock our full potential. What, our full potential to be bankrupt?
Burger you do understand that " the Scottish government says that Gers is a National Statistics publication, which means that it is "produced independently of Scottish ministers and has been assessed by the UK Statistics Authority as being produced in line with the Code of Practice for Official Statistics. "
Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
Scottish tax take £307 lower per person and spending £1661 higher so Ruth and umpteen other unionists shouting about a union divident of £1968 per head.
On the basis that GERS is a waste of time reading, if we look to see how we'd manage as an independent country then what does it tell us? We need to change spending priorities? Inherited share of debt? Nothing new there then.
Honestly, publishing these figures will just excite and irritate independence supporters. Why can't we see the actual picture?
Garvin said:
Edinburger said:
Is it just me who thinks some of the GERS data is absolutely ludicrous? How real are the figures? In this forum we have debated actual v assumed income tax intake, but that should be resolved with the new 'S' tax code surely. So how can Scotland's 8.2% of the UK population create 54%-60% of the UK deficit last year? I know loads of people dispute the GERS methodology but it seems to me that this is positioned to settle political discomfort and the rise of Scottish independence rather than giving an open and transparent view of the position.
Wasn’t it the SNP that claimed GERS represented the best view of Scotland’s finances? Be that as it may GERS does have some estimated figures within it but, as far as I can make out, nothing that would skew the result significantly.Maybe, just maybe, it supports what many have been saying for a long time - Scottish independence may be OK in theory but in practice it means that Scotland would have to take a real beating on its standard of living for quite some time (many years). If that is acceptable to Scotland then fair enough but they should not fool themselves otherwise.
Edinburger said:
Garvin said:
Edinburger said:
Is it just me who thinks some of the GERS data is absolutely ludicrous? How real are the figures? In this forum we have debated actual v assumed income tax intake, but that should be resolved with the new 'S' tax code surely. So how can Scotland's 8.2% of the UK population create 54%-60% of the UK deficit last year? I know loads of people dispute the GERS methodology but it seems to me that this is positioned to settle political discomfort and the rise of Scottish independence rather than giving an open and transparent view of the position.
Wasn’t it the SNP that claimed GERS represented the best view of Scotland’s finances? Be that as it may GERS does have some estimated figures within it but, as far as I can make out, nothing that would skew the result significantly.Maybe, just maybe, it supports what many have been saying for a long time - Scottish independence may be OK in theory but in practice it means that Scotland would have to take a real beating on its standard of living for quite some time (many years). If that is acceptable to Scotland then fair enough but they should not fool themselves otherwise.
Its isn’t: it accurately reflects the current state of play: that the Scottish economy is too heavily geared to spending more (around 85% of the difference) and not taking enough tax (around 15%).
If you look at the analysis Wings does for example in trying to dismiss GERS, he doesn’t challenge that differential. His attack comes on the fact that it is purely a one time snapshot (which GERS doesn’t claim not to be) which is unable to correctly account for the proper historical impact of north sea oil, and therefore things like %s of servicing historical debt would and should be negligible. Which in a way is ok: that’s an argument which could be made.
But it completely ignore the here and now. The Scottish economy is fubarred and the implications for an Indy Scotland would be pretty bleak unless the rUK gov as part of independence negotiations agreed to some kind of historical one off payment for oil revenue. Which isn’t going to happen.
Ridgemont said:
The GERS is something that the nats absolutely have to traduce and claim is biased or inaccurate.
This.Which is precisely why SNP moleTrollburger pulls it out his arse and starts talking about it when other aspects of the debate get too complicated for him.
Perhaps we could have a response on the questionable legality of the SNP's referendum bill proposals before pursuing this latest squirrel?
Ridgemont said:
It isn’t (biased) It accurately reflects the current state of play: that the Scottish economy is too heavily geared to spending more (around 85% of the difference) and not taking enough tax (around 15%).
Even the Scottish Government itself accepts this. There is no discussion to be had. In this 'burger definitely is trolling.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 21st August 19:00
Leithen said:
Mrr T said:
Edinburger said:
Yes, I do understand that.
Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
What's confusing you?Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
It could be multiple personality disorder
Ridgemont said:
Edinburger said:
Garvin said:
Edinburger said:
Is it just me who thinks some of the GERS data is absolutely ludicrous? How real are the figures? In this forum we have debated actual v assumed income tax intake, but that should be resolved with the new 'S' tax code surely. So how can Scotland's 8.2% of the UK population create 54%-60% of the UK deficit last year? I know loads of people dispute the GERS methodology but it seems to me that this is positioned to settle political discomfort and the rise of Scottish independence rather than giving an open and transparent view of the position.
Wasn’t it the SNP that claimed GERS represented the best view of Scotland’s finances? Be that as it may GERS does have some estimated figures within it but, as far as I can make out, nothing that would skew the result significantly.Maybe, just maybe, it supports what many have been saying for a long time - Scottish independence may be OK in theory but in practice it means that Scotland would have to take a real beating on its standard of living for quite some time (many years). If that is acceptable to Scotland then fair enough but they should not fool themselves otherwise.
Its isn’t: it accurately reflects the current state of play: that the Scottish economy is too heavily geared to spending more (around 85% of the difference) and not taking enough tax (around 15%).
If you look at the analysis Wings does for example in trying to dismiss GERS, he doesn’t challenge that differential. His attack comes on the fact that it is purely a one time snapshot (which GERS doesn’t claim not to be) which is unable to correctly account for the proper historical impact of north sea oil, and therefore things like %s of servicing historical debt would and should be negligible. Which in a way is ok: that’s an argument which could be made.
But it completely ignore the here and now. The Scottish economy is fubarred and the implications for an Indy Scotland would be pretty bleak unless the rUK gov as part of independence negotiations agreed to some kind of historical one off payment for oil revenue. Which isn’t going to happen.
I think the problem is that GERS doesn't and can't reflect the position of Scottish economy. The Scottish and UK economies are too deeply integrated to be analysed separately, and as Scotland's economy and taxation is mainly decided by Westminster how is that any representation of how an independent Scotland might perform?
Evercross said:
Ridgemont said:
The GERS is something that the nats absolutely have to traduce and claim is biased or inaccurate.
This.Which is precisely why SNP moleTrollburger pulls it out his arse and starts talking about it when other aspects of the debate get too complicated for him.
Perhaps we could have a response on the questionable legality of the SNP's referendum bill proposals before pursuing this latest squirrel?
Ridgemont said:
It isn’t (biased) It accurately reflects the current state of play: that the Scottish economy is too heavily geared to spending more (around 85% of the difference) and not taking enough tax (around 15%).
Even the Scottish Government itself accepts this. There is no discussion to be had. In this 'burger definitely is trolling.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 21st August 19:00
Edinburger said:
Mrr T said:
Edinburger said:
Yes, I do understand that.
Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
What's confusing you?Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
voyds9 said:
Edinburger said:
Mrr T said:
Edinburger said:
Yes, I do understand that.
Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
What's confusing you?Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
Seriously?How can 8.2% of the population amass 60% of the debt? By the way, £12.6 + £13.7 = £26.3 i.e. England has allocated 111% of the UK deficit to Scotland and Wales.
No what is interesting, is that all sides of the debate have celebrated the GERS figures. Yes, really. The SNP are arguing Scottish revenue is enough to cover all devolved spending as well as all state pensions and social protection ad revenue has exceeded £60bn for the first time.
Edinburger said:
I think the problem is that GERS doesn't and can't reflect the position of Scottish economy. The Scottish and UK economies are too deeply integrated to be analysed separately
Too integrated to analyse but not too integrated to rip up the union and hope for the best?Seems legit.
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
I think the problem is that GERS doesn't and can't reflect the position of Scottish economy. The Scottish and UK economies are too deeply integrated to be analysed separately
Too integrated to analyse but not too integrated to rip up the union and hope for the best?Seems legit.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 21st August 20:05
Edinburger said:
Leithen said:
Mrr T said:
Edinburger said:
Yes, I do understand that.
Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
What's confusing you?Tell me then; according to GERS Scotland has a deficit of £12.6bn, Wales has a deficit of £13.7bn. Yet the UK's deficit is £23.5bn. Really?
It could be multiple personality disorder
The clue is in the S.
GERW.
Notice the W?
Two different bodies. Add their results together and you get.... nothing that is meaningful.
Critique each piece of work separately and you'll start to make headway.
But not enough to make either case for independence anything other than a financial clusterf
k.But of course, FREEDOM!
Edinburger said:
Seriously?How can 8.2% of the population amass 60% of the debt? By the way, £12.6 + £13.7 = £26.3 i.e. England has allocated 111% of the UK deficit to Scotland and Wales.
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