Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Come to Dundee and drive around the roads surrounding Ninewells Hospital. This is one of the few hospitals in Scotland that has a private company running its car parks. Staff and visitors have to pay to park and the result is clogged up local roads as people avoid the parking charges and the excessive penalties for late return to their vehicle. If the Scottish Parliament determine to introduce this charge and the employers take the option to pass on this cost to the employees, I predict the result is people will not park at their workplace and will follow the model already being employed by doctors, nurses, patients etc. visiting Ninewells.
Arterial routes will be clogged, residential areas will be flooded by excessive parking, road safety will be compromised and the politicians will bury their heads pointing at the additional revenue being generated. It’s a clusterf*ck in the making!
Arterial routes will be clogged, residential areas will be flooded by excessive parking, road safety will be compromised and the politicians will bury their heads pointing at the additional revenue being generated. It’s a clusterf*ck in the making!
Edinburger said:
texaxile said:
So in her little world, we would still subsidise everything as we currently do and still retain a central banking system using Sterling yet Scotland have complete autonomy?. I really don't get it.
We give Scotland free schooling, free healthcare, free defence, benefits, subsidies and support, and in return the English get what, exactly?.
I think we would be better off investing in the Nigerian Prince who emailed me last week.
Is this a serious post? “We give...”?! Jeez. We give Scotland free schooling, free healthcare, free defence, benefits, subsidies and support, and in return the English get what, exactly?.
I think we would be better off investing in the Nigerian Prince who emailed me last week.
You say that to some of my challenges to you - I’ll reconfirm they are 100% serious you struggle with it and then refuse to answer AWOL and forget the question then ROFLOL
simoid said:
Better than free buses for 20 years? Buses running along the route of the tram tracks, like they used to at Sighthill. Trams are a lovely novelty but the money could and should have been spent more wisely in my humble opinion.
Where do you draw the line?The Forth Crossing should've been scrapped and just had free hover craft for 20 years. The borders railway shouldn't have happened as every borders resident could've been given a years free rent etc etc.
Thought conservatives like infrastructure projects? The tram will open up more opportunities and allow the city to grow unlocking more potential. Passenger numbers are at a record year on year are they not? They're also turning a decent profit. Looking forward to them coming to Newhaven then Granton completing the Roseburn loop.
sbarclay62 said:
Where do you draw the line?
The Forth Crossing should've been scrapped and just had free hover craft for 20 years. The borders railway shouldn't have happened as every borders resident could've been given a years free rent etc etc.
Thought conservatives like infrastructure projects? The tram will open up more opportunities and allow the city to grow unlocking more potential. Passenger numbers are at a record year on year are they not? They're also turning a decent profit. Looking forward to them coming to Newhaven then Granton completing the Roseburn loop.
I draw the line at whatever wins a cost benefit analysis.The Forth Crossing should've been scrapped and just had free hover craft for 20 years. The borders railway shouldn't have happened as every borders resident could've been given a years free rent etc etc.
Thought conservatives like infrastructure projects? The tram will open up more opportunities and allow the city to grow unlocking more potential. Passenger numbers are at a record year on year are they not? They're also turning a decent profit. Looking forward to them coming to Newhaven then Granton completing the Roseburn loop.
It’s very obvious that a new bridge was required. We tried to style out the old one but it wasn’t fit for purpose. Hovercraft aren’t a direct substitute for a bridge unless they can take a car a second across the Forth (maybe they could!?) There’s not an already existing brilliant hovercraft network as there is with the Edinburgh buses though.
I’m not sure what you’re on about free rent for. Perhaps you’ve not grasped the issue: free buses would not just be to give away the billion pounds, it would be to improve traffic flow and reduce pollution by reducing car traffic use. To actually improve the lives of all residents.
I’m not sure what conservatives like. I like money being invested wisely. A tram doesn’t unlock any more opportunities than a bus. It’s just a big ludicrously expensive bus that can’t turn off the tracks, and makes a lot more noise, and causes all the traffic in its path to halt. And it’s taken the place of perfectly good bus lanes previously.
simoid said:
sbarclay62 said:
Where do you draw the line?
The Forth Crossing should've been scrapped and just had free hover craft for 20 years. The borders railway shouldn't have happened as every borders resident could've been given a years free rent etc etc.
Thought conservatives like infrastructure projects? The tram will open up more opportunities and allow the city to grow unlocking more potential. Passenger numbers are at a record year on year are they not? They're also turning a decent profit. Looking forward to them coming to Newhaven then Granton completing the Roseburn loop.
I draw the line at whatever wins a cost benefit analysis.The Forth Crossing should've been scrapped and just had free hover craft for 20 years. The borders railway shouldn't have happened as every borders resident could've been given a years free rent etc etc.
Thought conservatives like infrastructure projects? The tram will open up more opportunities and allow the city to grow unlocking more potential. Passenger numbers are at a record year on year are they not? They're also turning a decent profit. Looking forward to them coming to Newhaven then Granton completing the Roseburn loop.
It’s very obvious that a new bridge was required. We tried to style out the old one but it wasn’t fit for purpose. Hovercraft aren’t a direct substitute for a bridge unless they can take a car a second across the Forth (maybe they could!?) There’s not an already existing brilliant hovercraft network as there is with the Edinburgh buses though.
I’m not sure what you’re on about free rent for. Perhaps you’ve not grasped the issue: free buses would not just be to give away the billion pounds, it would be to improve traffic flow and reduce pollution by reducing car traffic use. To actually improve the lives of all residents.
I’m not sure what conservatives like. I like money being invested wisely. A tram doesn’t unlock any more opportunities than a bus. It’s just a big ludicrously expensive bus that can’t turn off the tracks, and makes a lot more noise, and causes all the traffic in its path to halt. And it’s taken the place of perfectly good bus lanes previously.
Although I use it whenever I visit Edinburgh as I stay at the Premier inn or Novotel alongside it near the Gyle centre .. dead handy free parking at the hotel and tram in
Earthdweller said:
Manchester’s Metrolink is brilliant however I can’t really see the point of the Edinburgh tram
Although I use it whenever I visit Edinburgh as I stay at the Premier inn or Novotel alongside it near the Gyle centre .. dead handy free parking at the hotel and tram in
Although I use it whenever I visit Edinburgh as I stay at the Premier inn or Novotel alongside it near the Gyle centre .. dead handy free parking at the hotel and tram in
Leithen said:
Earthdweller said:
Manchester’s Metrolink is brilliant however I can’t really see the point of the Edinburgh tram
Although I use it whenever I visit Edinburgh as I stay at the Premier inn or Novotel alongside it near the Gyle centre .. dead handy free parking at the hotel and tram in
Although I use it whenever I visit Edinburgh as I stay at the Premier inn or Novotel alongside it near the Gyle centre .. dead handy free parking at the hotel and tram in
If you are going to do it .. do it properly not just one line that seems more of a vanity project than a real benefit
That’s my point
Earthdweller said:
It’s just one line .. it’s not connected ... it’s just seems a bit pointless really .. handy if your a tourist coming from the airport but the difference in Manchester is night and day it’s a large and getting much larger frequent viable well connected network
If you are going to do it .. do it properly not just one line that seems more of a vanity project than a real benefit
That’s my point
The argument for it was to relieve a pinch point on the Glasgow road coming out of Edinburgh towards the west (Airport) from the centre. It couldn't take any more traffic.If you are going to do it .. do it properly not just one line that seems more of a vanity project than a real benefit
That’s my point
The solution? Probably not the best. There's a big backstory about rail connections to the Airport being cancelled and other more integrated solutions lost. Just using the tram route as a bus route would have been cheaper.
It is now to be extended to Leith, but will remain a poor imitation of other cities networks.
I was at a council workshop recently where city centre businesses were invited to discuss the challenges Edinburgh has. One of the biggest problems they have is managing the natural constraints between the New and Old Town, with the Castle in-between. This has led to the current nightmare of Princes St being a river of buses that creates a barrier preventing the New Town connection to Princes St Gardens and stopping Princes St fulfil it's potential of being a stunning location with the Castle and Gardens in front of it.
I fear that as with so many of these situations, a holistic long term solution is yet to be found, let alone acted on. E-Bikes will make a huge difference to all cities in the near future, and better integration with fixed rail is essential. But the investment has to be found to improve it, let alone extend it.
sbarclay62 said:
They're also turning a decent profit.
The trams made a "profit" of £1.6 million in 2017, but this was under an "operator only" agreement; in 2018 when the cost of maintenance/infrastructure was added they posted a £9.6 million operating loss, and this figure obviously doesn't include the costs of financing the additional borrowing of £276 million over the next 30 years. The trams do not, and will never make a profit, unlike Lothian Buses.I use the tram occasional and it's a marginally better way to get to the airport compared to the airport bus; the argument should be was it worth £1 billion for a third of the original network at three times the initial planned budget? Absolutely no way, and it would quite rightly never have been built if the final cost been known at the outset.
Leithen said:
The argument for it was to relieve a pinch point on the Glasgow road coming out of Edinburgh towards the west (Airport) from the centre. It couldn't take any more traffic.
The solution? Probably not the best. There's a big backstory about rail connections to the Airport being cancelled and other more integrated solutions lost. Just using the tram route as a bus route would have been cheaper.
It is now to be extended to Leith, but will remain a poor imitation of other cities networks.
I was at a council workshop recently where city centre businesses were invited to discuss the challenges Edinburgh has. One of the biggest problems they have is managing the natural constraints between the New and Old Town, with the Castle in-between. This has led to the current nightmare of Princes St being a river of buses that creates a barrier preventing the New Town connection to Princes St Gardens and stopping Princes St fulfil it's potential of being a stunning location with the Castle and Gardens in front of it.
I fear that as with so many of these situations, a holistic long term solution is yet to be found, let alone acted on. E-Bikes will make a huge difference to all cities in the near future, and better integration with fixed rail is essential. But the investment has to be found to improve it, let alone extend it.
Fair points .. as an outsider it does make you ask the question why ? Though The solution? Probably not the best. There's a big backstory about rail connections to the Airport being cancelled and other more integrated solutions lost. Just using the tram route as a bus route would have been cheaper.
It is now to be extended to Leith, but will remain a poor imitation of other cities networks.
I was at a council workshop recently where city centre businesses were invited to discuss the challenges Edinburgh has. One of the biggest problems they have is managing the natural constraints between the New and Old Town, with the Castle in-between. This has led to the current nightmare of Princes St being a river of buses that creates a barrier preventing the New Town connection to Princes St Gardens and stopping Princes St fulfil it's potential of being a stunning location with the Castle and Gardens in front of it.
I fear that as with so many of these situations, a holistic long term solution is yet to be found, let alone acted on. E-Bikes will make a huge difference to all cities in the near future, and better integration with fixed rail is essential. But the investment has to be found to improve it, let alone extend it.
Leithen said:
The solution? Probably not the best. There's a big backstory about rail connections to the Airport being cancelled and other more integrated solutions lost. Just using the tram route as a bus route would have been cheaper.
To be fair, binning EARL and GARL were probably two of the best infrastructure decisions the current Holyrood incumbents have made. EARL was going to be a grandiose scheme burrowing under the runways from the Fife side to serve a station under the terminal. It would have cost billions and there's no chance it would have been done on time or on the Labour executive's fantasy budget.GARL (Glasgow Airport Rail Link) was almost as bad - the line was intended to arrive at the airport via the current fuel farm, but there was no budget provision to relocate it! There's no way it could have been on time or even close to budget. The 3rd track between Tradeston & Paisley and the extra trains for the airport were all delivered though & have enhanced services in Ayrshire & Inverclyde.
There's noises now about reinstating it as a tram-train, but all the CPO purchased land has now been handed back. Personally I reckon it's a non-starter.
This is an interesting article:
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Edinburger said:
This is an interesting article:
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Thank the Lord an independent Scotland will have access to the Sovereign Wealth Fund to pay for this massive increase in expenditure...lolSignificant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
I've never understood why there's so much contempt for the Edinburgh Trams and the Borders Railway in here.
Like all major projects (Crossrail anyone?) there are issues with budgets and timeframes, but now they're delivered they are both successful and are both a big enhancement to the city of Edinburgh.
The Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Edinburgh Trams has been open for five years and over 27 million journeys have been made. For visitors arriving by air they are a fantastic addition. Only the DLR at London City Airport comes close to the convenience.
Be proud of what we have delivered. And don't blame the blooming SNP for everything. No political party is all bad or all good.
Like all major projects (Crossrail anyone?) there are issues with budgets and timeframes, but now they're delivered they are both successful and are both a big enhancement to the city of Edinburgh.
The Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Edinburgh Trams has been open for five years and over 27 million journeys have been made. For visitors arriving by air they are a fantastic addition. Only the DLR at London City Airport comes close to the convenience.
Be proud of what we have delivered. And don't blame the blooming SNP for everything. No political party is all bad or all good.
Edinburger said:
This is an interesting article:
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
i noticed this chat doing the rounds on social media following the snp conference. it’s a great sound bite, however the scottish government spending currently £8billion a year on state pension (latest GERS) figures, where on earth are they gonna find an additional £16billion for this?!? Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Edinburger said:
This is an interesting article:
Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
That’s the SNP modus operandi in a nutshell.Significant lack of meat on the bones but it’s an ambitious comment. Not sure if this is SNP policy or not.
Based on 63% of average UK salary, that equates to £18,270pa or £351 per week which matches the average state pension in Europe. UK average state pension is £6,708pa or £129 per week.
I’ve not seen any chat on how this will be funded but it’s an interesting aspiration.
Edinburger said:
I've never understood why there's so much contempt for the Edinburgh Trams and the Borders Railway in here.
Like all major projects (Crossrail anyone?) there are issues with budgets and timeframes, but now they're delivered they are both successful and are both a big enhancement to the city of Edinburgh.
The Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Edinburgh Trams has been open for five years and over 27 million journeys have been made. For visitors arriving by air they are a fantastic addition. Only the DLR at London City Airport comes close to the convenience.
Be proud of what we have delivered. And don't blame the blooming SNP for everything. No political party is all bad or all good.
You aren’t reading/don’t want to understand then.Like all major projects (Crossrail anyone?) there are issues with budgets and timeframes, but now they're delivered they are both successful and are both a big enhancement to the city of Edinburgh.
The Borders Railway has been open for three years and four million journeys have been made on it. Big improvement to commuting options for people of Midlothian and the Borders.
Edinburgh Trams has been open for five years and over 27 million journeys have been made. For visitors arriving by air they are a fantastic addition. Only the DLR at London City Airport comes close to the convenience.
Be proud of what we have delivered. And don't blame the blooming SNP for everything. No political party is all bad or all good.
The bus is just as convenient and doesn’t take £1,000,000,000 of initial investment. It’s really as simple as that.
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