Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Edinburger said:
hidetheelephants said:
Murph7355 said:
Klippie said:
She's an embarrassment to Scotland, they tied her in knots - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaD959SgOjw
I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
And yet...they still win 56 seats in Parliament.I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
How so?
Hint: it's not in Scotland. And it doesn't use AMS.
Edinburger said:
rossub said:
This thread has an amazing ability to go completely off topic on every page.
Yep. Since Vol. 1...technodup said:
There's only one parliament worth talking about. The one he is talking about. The one where the SNP have 56 bodies.
Steady on there. 35 at the last count!Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 22 October 20:14
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
Jeez you clearly don’t commute into London from the west then go through London - I do probably 30%+ of the usual month it’s hell any time of the day there is no more capacity this however delivers on that freeing up tube capacity and mainline capacity too. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
Edinburger said:
hidetheelephants said:
Murph7355 said:
Klippie said:
She's an embarrassment to Scotland, they tied her in knots - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaD959SgOjw
I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
And yet...they still win 56 seats in Parliament.I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
How so?
I wonder why Gina Miller doesn’t go to the high court to force SNP to get on with the job of being in power rather than pissing in the wind. (Sorry if that would be a salary loss to you burger but hey such is life)
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... Evercross said:
technodup said:
There's only one parliament worth talking about. The one he is talking about. The one where the SNP have 56 bodies.
Steady on there. 35 at the last count!Sway said:
Shiny, new buses.
Glasgow's got a lot of shiny new buses these days. Wifi, changing points, leather seats, cameras everywhere, plus the timing info on the screens at the stops, and the new bus only streets in the town. They've gone right up in the world tbh.Between that, the train network and the new properly sectioned off cycle routes we're pishing all over some poxy trams that only go to one place.
technodup said:
lasgow's got a lot of shiny new buses these days. Wifi, changing points, leather seats, cameras everywhere, plus the timing info on the screens at the stops, and the new bus only streets in the town. They've gone right up in the world tbh.
Between that, the train network and the new properly sectioned off cycle routes we're pishing all over some poxy trams that only go to one place.
Ha'wey the Weegies! Between that, the train network and the new properly sectioned off cycle routes we're pishing all over some poxy trams that only go to one place.
Always preferred my time working there over Edinburgh, although the offices and digs were nicer and I somehow always needed to be there when Fringe was on...
Thing is, Edinburgh DID have separate roads for buses in the early 2000s. The bit that’s now the tram line between about Edinburgh Park and around Murrayfield was a guided busway originally. Wasn’t particularly comfortable or fast as I remember, the buses kind of bumped off the sides of the concrete track. All re-purposed during the early part of the tram project.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/West_Edinburg...
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/West_Edinburg...
Sway said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... ds and trams are lovely. Even tram drivers are nicer people than bus drivers. They smile more because they have a bell to ring.And buses are big loud things and trams are quiet. Bustards are so loud that they are banned from running at bedtime while trams are allowed to glide silently all night (did I get that right?)
And trams are fast - so very fast. Almost as fast as a child could cycle! Buses are limited to like 23mph or something and definitely can’t go over that speed.
Sway said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... However ...
Britain made a huge mistake in the 40’s and 50’s by dismantling urban tram and trolleybus networks in favour of private cars and dirty diesel buses
Then in the 60’s they made the same mistake with trains
We are in a position where most cities have been built up without the space for connected tram networks or they are old and historic and again not suitable for the building of new light rail networks
Manchester .. being an urban wasteland ( joke) had the space and disused old railways that hadn’t been built over
Edinburgh isn’t ( opinion) and doesn’t
One tram route is meh
It would be better to look towards another ancient city, albeit smaller, such as York where they have gone towards fast bus corridors and park and ride
Guided busways and bus priority routes are probably the better solution for many cities that don’t have space
Sway said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... For added hilarity when they built the tram network (network, who's taking the piss there), they build the good fast bit over the Busway road!
Klippie said:
Single digit majorities show there are a lot of people out there who do not vote for the SNP.
Indeed. Another huge chunk of irony being that the very thing that led to the 2015 'Toarie' majority government that 'Scotland didn't vote for' was the same thing that gave the SNP 56 MPs that Scotland didn't vote for either by their own standards.The SNP will probably make gains at the next general election thanks to FPTP due to Labour polling at their lowest since the time Michael Foot was leader, but I doubt their overall percentage share of the vote will increase by very much if at all.
Of course, if the election gets kicked further down the road and coincides with Salmond-the-sex-pest's trial then things could swing very rapidly as in some constituencies it would only take a hundred, a couple of dozen or in one case 2 voters to change their mind for the incumbent MP to be out on their arse.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 23 October 10:12
Surprised La Sturgeon hasn't been making a bit more of a fuss about this, given the direct impact on jobs, tax revenues etc that it'll cause
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Or maybe it's because she can't use the usual "because Westminster/Toaries/austerity" line. "Because EU policies" would be a bit tricky perhaps?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bu...
Or maybe it's because she can't use the usual "because Westminster/Toaries/austerity" line. "Because EU policies" would be a bit tricky perhaps?
Klippie said:
Murph7355 said:
And yet...they still win 56 seats in Parliament.
How so?
Single digit majorities show there are a lot of people out there who do not vote for the SNP.How so?
)(My bad on numbers. 35 not 56 (that was 2015).
I agree that they do not speak for Scotland, which makes their remain bluster all the more ironic. But they obviously ha e plenty of support.... And I suspect it will likely increase again at the next GE only heightening the noise.
“Pro-independence campaigners are losing supporters at a faster rate than they are gaining them, a poll has found.
A survey for Progress Scotland, a campaign group fronted by the former SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson, used a sliding scale to measure public sympathy for leaving the Union.
Using the same methodology as the Yes campaign in the 2014 referendum, it found that 25 per cent of independence voters had reversed their position over the past five years while 12 per cent of former unionists had switched to Yes.“
A survey for Progress Scotland, a campaign group fronted by the former SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson, used a sliding scale to measure public sympathy for leaving the Union.
Using the same methodology as the Yes campaign in the 2014 referendum, it found that 25 per cent of independence voters had reversed their position over the past five years while 12 per cent of former unionists had switched to Yes.“
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
hidetheelephants said:
Murph7355 said:
Klippie said:
She's an embarrassment to Scotland, they tied her in knots - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaD959SgOjw
I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
And yet...they still win 56 seats in Parliament.I know more people who can't stand the SNP that like them, they will tell as many as will listen that the SNP speak for the people of Scotland...they absolutley do not.
How so?
Hint: it's not in Scotland. And it doesn't use AMS.
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
rossub said:
This thread has an amazing ability to go completely off topic on every page.
Yep. Since Vol. 1...technodup said:
There's only one parliament worth talking about. The one he is talking about. The one where the SNP have 56 bodies.
Steady on there. 35 at the last count!Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 22 October 20:14
Welshbeef said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
Jeez you clearly don’t commute into London from the west then go through London - I do probably 30%+ of the usual month it’s hell any time of the day there is no more capacity this however delivers on that freeing up tube capacity and mainline capacity too. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
Look at simoid's points re. Edinburgh Trams. Now I don't have a big opinion on Crossrail as I fly to London City and take the DLR to Bank, but to paraphrase simoid if you're crossing from West you can take the Picadilly line to central London or the Heathrow Express to Paddington then connect, blah, blah, blah. Get it?
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