Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
A.J.M said:
So buses vs trams is more debatable than shagger Salmond, possible deleted evidence and a 25% tarrif on whisky.
The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
This thread often misses out 'important' stuff about Scottish politics.The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
The whisky tariff is a big issue.
Evercross said:
I want to see how the SNats will bat that one away considering the research was done by an organisation run by their own former leader in the HoC.
But,....but....independence is inevitable!
Ignore polls.
Edinburger said:
Sway said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... you must be taking the piss. You are, eh? There’s no way anyone who can use a website and apparently hold down a job can fail to understand this:Now:
Expensive trams on expensive rails
Buses on road
Should have been:
Trams consigned to history
Buses on road and tram track routes
Edinburger said:
I wonder if people campaigned against airports when perfectly good trains to London were available. Or if people campaigned against cars when perfectly good horses were available. Or if people campaigned against walking on the ground when perfectly good trees to swing through were available.
It's called progress, my son.
What’s that sound? It’s either a tram or a parrot whooshing by.It's called progress, my son.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Sway said:
Edinburger said:
Jeez. Speak with commuters and visitors. Ask them if they'd prefer to sit on a fast comfortable tram gliding effortlessly between stops or a bus held up behind every other blooming bus in the bus lane.
Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
It seems this is a really difficult concept for you. Subjective, but the tram is a far better experience in my view. And get over the spend - it's already been spent.
You could also ask why we're spending £18bn on Crossrail when you can get on other trains to make the same journey. But that's not SNP bashing.
I'll go slow, let me know where you struggle...
Imagine, just for a moment, the exact same thing that's there now. The dedicated space just for trams, built specifically for the main bottleneck.
Exactly like it is now. Except built without very, very expensive rails and electric lines.
Still with me?
It's like a road, but for no other traffic.
Then, on that road, for no other traffic, instead of teams which are joined together as one fairly big lump.
Instead of them, you have shiny new buses, identical in almost every way to shiny new trams, except cheaper and with two forms of suspension giving an even better ride.
Now, imagine that because those shiny new buses don't have to be joined nose to tail, they can run more frequently, and if there's a problem with one it has a lesser impact (both in delays, flow and resolution).
Are you still with me?
Shiny, new buses.
Smooth, comfortable.
Running on the same new route.
But more frequently, with fewer issues, and more comfortably.
All for far less than half the price...
Yes, it's too late for the airport link trams. The money has been wasted.
That doesn't mean we can't learn from it, and do better next time.
Next time, it wouldn't mean several years of utter f
king chaos with half the city dug up or delayed thanks to the need to put rails down... you must be taking the piss. You are, eh? There’s no way anyone who can use a website and apparently hold down a job can fail to understand this:Now:
Expensive trams on expensive rails
Buses on road
Should have been:
Trams consigned to history
Buses on road and tram track routes
The trams offer a superior alternative mode of transport for people who want to use them. In a city which is so dependent on business and tourism, it can only be a good thing to have trams to/from the airport and city centre.
The trams are also profitable.
I really don't see why you're so upset about them. Not sure if you actually have an issue or if it's just SNP = BAD, even though they're not a SNP product.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
I wonder if people campaigned against airports when perfectly good trains to London were available. Or if people campaigned against cars when perfectly good horses were available. Or if people campaigned against walking on the ground when perfectly good trees to swing through were available.
It's called progress, my son.
What’s that sound? It’s either a tram or a parrot whooshing by.It's called progress, my son.
Edinburger said:
A.J.M said:
So buses vs trams is more debatable than shagger Salmond, possible deleted evidence and a 25% tarrif on whisky.
The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
This thread often misses out 'important' stuff about Scottish politics.The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
The whisky tariff is a big issue.
As is the case for potentially deleted evidence.
Which given the list of accusations is staggering and will hopefully be chased back to whoever authorised it, if true of course.
Both demand more attention than buses vs trams.
A.J.M said:
Edinburger said:
A.J.M said:
So buses vs trams is more debatable than shagger Salmond, possible deleted evidence and a 25% tarrif on whisky.
The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
This thread often misses out 'important' stuff about Scottish politics.The last one is a large torpedo to my mates claims an independent Scotland could use whisky as the new oil fund.
The whisky tariff is a big issue.
As is the case for potentially deleted evidence.
Which given the list of accusations is staggering and will hopefully be chased back to whoever authorised it, if true of course.
Both demand more attention than buses vs trams.
Not much the UK or Scottish governments can do about it. What was the rationale for introducing them?
Edinburger said:
Massive issue. Jobs are at risk. The tariffs are on shortbread and cashmere knitwear products too.
Not much the UK or Scottish governments can do about it. What was the rationale for introducing them?
Erm .. the UK Govt can do lots about the tariffs .. the SNP could help massively Not much the UK or Scottish governments can do about it. What was the rationale for introducing them?
By voting with the Tories and supporting Brexit
You do realise these tariffs are in retaliation for the EU tariffs on US goods .. and it’s only just starting
Leave the EU .. leave the tariffs
Simples
Edinburger said:
Brexit is surely a catalyst for a fresh Sottish independence referendum and also (perhaps more so) a referendum on Irish unity.
Ignore polls.
So how can Brexit be so terrible for Scotland without Scexit being 10 times (at least) worse? I have yet to hear a coherent answer on this from any nationalist. Ignore polls.
Edinburger said:
Did you protest or campaign against the trams? Thought not.
The trams offer a superior alternative mode of transport for people who want to use them. In a city which is so dependent on business and tourism, it can only be a good thing to have trams to/from the airport and city centre.
The trams are also profitable.
I really don't see why you're so upset about them. Not sure if you actually have an issue or if it's just SNP = BAD, even though they're not a SNP product.
I’m not overly upset but it’s tragic how much you keep defending them with bullsThe trams offer a superior alternative mode of transport for people who want to use them. In a city which is so dependent on business and tourism, it can only be a good thing to have trams to/from the airport and city centre.
The trams are also profitable.
I really don't see why you're so upset about them. Not sure if you actually have an issue or if it's just SNP = BAD, even though they're not a SNP product.
t like they’re “profitable” 
Alpacaman said:
So how can Brexit be so terrible for Scotland without Scexit being 10 times (at least) worse? I have yet to hear a coherent answer on this from any nationalist.
Because many Scottish nationalist are against being in a union with English people, but don’t mind Europeans so much.Edinburger said:
The trams are also profitable.
Well, they are profitable if you completely ignore the interest payments on the vastly over budget cost of building the (half) tram line. If you include them the picture is ever so slightly different.https://swd.media/news/scotland/lothian/edinburgh-...
I live in Edinburgh. I cannot wait until the Council's next bright idea of closing The Mound to cars comes in. It will save XR the effort of bringing the city centre to a standstill...
simoid said:
Alpacaman said:
So how can Brexit be so terrible for Scotland without Scexit being 10 times (at least) worse? I have yet to hear a coherent answer on this from any nationalist.
Because many Scottish nationalist are against being in a union with English people, but don’t mind Europeans so much.t
ts.Edinburger said:
Massive issue. Jobs are at risk. The tariffs are on shortbread and cashmere knitwear products too.
Not much the UK or Scottish governments can do about it. What was the rationale for introducing them?
It came about because Airbus has been receiving “state aid” which then undercuts Boeing. Not much the UK or Scottish governments can do about it. What was the rationale for introducing them?
The WTO (as that is how EU trade with USA) found the EU to be at fault to the tube of £8billion. At which point tariffs have been applied to EU products list of which you can find.
In addition trumps rightful statement when you go to any US city you’ll see American made cars and mercs BMW’s etc and many of them. When you go to a European country and city you never or hardly ever see an American vehicle. It doesn’t seem fair and nor is it so Trumo is rebalancing the state of play.
I’m surprised someone who had to sign NDAs for the Scottish referendum and works in the finance sector with frequent travel to London isn’t even remotely aware of current news - but is fascinated with anything to swerve Salmond sex court case redacted lies and budget overspend by £15billion (UK total £20billion)
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