Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Silverbullet767 said:
As much as I'd love that, I can't see it happening.
I think her drum banging will only get louder, those who march to the beat will get louder too. We're in for a toxic few years. I just hope any investment in Scotland isn't affected too much.
Two things...I think her drum banging will only get louder, those who march to the beat will get louder too. We're in for a toxic few years. I just hope any investment in Scotland isn't affected too much.
1. The Salmond court case. There is a fair chance she will be called as a witness and I am sure she is crapping herself at that prospect as fat Eck's ego will happily throw her under the bus if it saves his skin.
2. She and the SNP are going to have to come clean about currency/deficit requirements for future EU membership as once January 31st 2020 has passed the EU commission will no longer be restricted on what it can comment on as an independent Scotland joining the EU will no longer be a theoretical topic.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 13th December 11:36
My view? Boris should say to the SNP that if they want an indyref then as a responsible UK government which wants to avoid any adverse consequences for the people of Scotland then the SNP need to pass a number of tests, to include:
- they can run a balanced budget, without subsidy from rUK in the form of Barnet formula
- public services, including the Scottish NHS, can be run efficiently
- they can develop a credible plan for a Scottish central bank & currency
- etc
Time scale - 5 years. If they pass the tests then they get their referendum. If not, then they shut up about it for at least a decade.
- they can run a balanced budget, without subsidy from rUK in the form of Barnet formula
- public services, including the Scottish NHS, can be run efficiently
- they can develop a credible plan for a Scottish central bank & currency
- etc
Time scale - 5 years. If they pass the tests then they get their referendum. If not, then they shut up about it for at least a decade.
OK, so the UK leaves the EU within the next seven weeks. Scotland is now out of the EU as part of that.
If Scotland then leaves the UK, it presumably can't just opt back in to the EU immediately, can it? Surely it has to go through an application process, giving rise to questions such as:
If Scotland then leaves the UK, it presumably can't just opt back in to the EU immediately, can it? Surely it has to go through an application process, giving rise to questions such as:
- what currency would an independent Scotland have?
- if it used Sterling, surely the EU will not allow entry since rUK Sterling is not an EU currency?
- would Scotland be a net contributor to, or net recipient from, the EU? If the latter, why would the EU want them?
- might the Spanish block Scotland's EU re-entry because they don't want to encourage the Catalans?
- surely the EU would insist on hard borders between Scotland / Northern Ireland, and Scotland / England - a new Hadrian's Wall, if you like. How's that going to work then? Customs post on the A1?
I suppose the common travel area will be similar to whatever happens with Irish (non-)border.
The EU is happy to accept net beneficiaries because it is for the common good.
Spain - who knows!?
Currency is a wild one too. Obviously deficit related. Not using the pound rips apart the fabric of the GB economy.
The EU is happy to accept net beneficiaries because it is for the common good.
Spain - who knows!?
Currency is a wild one too. Obviously deficit related. Not using the pound rips apart the fabric of the GB economy.
Another thing. I keep hearing Sturgeon say "Scotland didn't vote to leave the EU". But it was a vote to decide what the UK as a whole wanted. It didn't ask "does your bit want to remain?" did it?
My view: UK-wide vote, therefore "this bit voted to leave / remain / whatever" type comments are simply irrelevant. UK vote, UK consequences.
My view: UK-wide vote, therefore "this bit voted to leave / remain / whatever" type comments are simply irrelevant. UK vote, UK consequences.
Lannister902 said:
I really don't blame the majority of Scotland wanting to gtfo of the UK with BJ in charge
Except that they don't. The amount of misinformation spread/fuelled by Nicola is staggering!Brave Fart said:
If Scotland then leaves the UK, it presumably can't just opt back in to the EU immediately, can it?
No it cannot, and it never could. Blackford, Sturgeon and Salmond before them lied constantly on this exact question. There are two letters published on the Scottish government website written by representatives of the EU Commission confirming that Scotland cannot accede to membership automatically.Edited by Evercross on Friday 13th December 12:23
Lannister902 said:
I really don't blame the majority of Scotland wanting to gtfo of the UK with BJ in charge
They don't - last night the pro-independence parties got 45% of the vote. Just because party arithmetic handed the SNP a lot of seats, doesn't change the fact that the majority of Scots DON'T want independence.Brave Fart said:
OK, so the UK leaves the EU within the next seven weeks. Scotland is now out of the EU as part of that.
If Scotland then leaves the UK, it presumably can't just opt back in to the EU immediately, can it? Surely it has to go through an application process, giving rise to questions such as:
The answers are Toaries, Westmonster and Freeeedom.If Scotland then leaves the UK, it presumably can't just opt back in to the EU immediately, can it? Surely it has to go through an application process, giving rise to questions such as:
- what currency would an independent Scotland have?
- if it used Sterling, surely the EU will not allow entry since rUK Sterling is not an EU currency?
- would Scotland be a net contributor to, or net recipient from, the EU? If the latter, why would the EU want them?
- might the Spanish block Scotland's EU re-entry because they don't want to encourage the Catalans?
- surely the EU would insist on hard borders between Scotland / Northern Ireland, and Scotland / England - a new Hadrian's Wall, if you like. How's that going to work then? Customs post on the A1?
The pragmatic case for indyScot is even weaker now than last time around and the white paper was hopeless back then as it was.
Cantaloupe said:
Mr Tidy said:
And yet the 4 or 5 million Scots get to vote on their independence, but the other 55+ million UK voters don't get to vote on it. 
Oh God, I think you've banged your head too much dude, why would you get a vote on whether Scotland should stay or leave the UK?It's for the voters of Scotland to decide, dearie me, and this doo-hickey is allowed to vote !!!
Imagine the outcry if all EU citizens, not just those resident in the UK, had been able to vote in the Brexit referendum.
Order66 said:
Lannister902 said:
I really don't blame the majority of Scotland wanting to gtfo of the UK with BJ in charge
They don't - last night the pro-independence parties got 45% of the vote. Just because party arithmetic handed the SNP a lot of seats, doesn't change the fact that the majority of Scots DON'T want independence.
Additionally, this was about sending representatives down to London, not a vote on how well the devolved government is doing up here.The SNP didn't win over 50% of the Scottish vote.
For (in an ideological sense) a single issue party this is a pretty big 'fail'.
If I were Boris Johnson, the first thing I would 'do' (after Brexit), would be boundary changes.
Size of constituencies by electorate
The number of people able to vote (the electorate) differs by constituency. The Office for National Statistics gives the average electorate across constituencies of about:
72,200 in England
67,200 in Scotland
68,300 in Northern Ireland
56,000 in Wales
Source https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-...
This shows that the Welsh / Scottish and Northern Irish are 'better' (in a quantitative if not a qualitative sense!) represented than us English.
Why?
I think the last boundary changes were under the last Labour government, to 'favour' their electoral chances - the LD's in coalition refused to support any changes in a hissy fit after losing the SAV referendum. Theresa May threw away her majority before changes to constituencies had been put through.
So Boris will/should even out average size of constituencies. Immediately.
The SNP only got 4% of the national vote. Proposed independence affects us all so we all (E/W/S/NI) should have a say in any attempt to break up the UK. IMHO.
For (in an ideological sense) a single issue party this is a pretty big 'fail'.
If I were Boris Johnson, the first thing I would 'do' (after Brexit), would be boundary changes.
Size of constituencies by electorate
The number of people able to vote (the electorate) differs by constituency. The Office for National Statistics gives the average electorate across constituencies of about:
72,200 in England
67,200 in Scotland
68,300 in Northern Ireland
56,000 in Wales
Source https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-...
This shows that the Welsh / Scottish and Northern Irish are 'better' (in a quantitative if not a qualitative sense!) represented than us English.
Why?
I think the last boundary changes were under the last Labour government, to 'favour' their electoral chances - the LD's in coalition refused to support any changes in a hissy fit after losing the SAV referendum. Theresa May threw away her majority before changes to constituencies had been put through.
So Boris will/should even out average size of constituencies. Immediately.
The SNP only got 4% of the national vote. Proposed independence affects us all so we all (E/W/S/NI) should have a say in any attempt to break up the UK. IMHO.
alfaspecial said:
The SNP didn't win over 50% of the Scottish vote.
For (in an ideological sense) a single issue party this is a pretty big 'fail'.
If I were Boris Johnson, the first thing I would 'do' (after Brexit), would be boundary changes.
Size of constituencies by electorate
The number of people able to vote (the electorate) differs by constituency. The Office for National Statistics gives the average electorate across constituencies of about:
72,200 in England
67,200 in Scotland
68,300 in Northern Ireland
56,000 in Wales
Source https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-...
This shows that the Welsh / Scottish and Northern Irish are 'better' (in a quantitative if not a qualitative sense!) represented than us English.
Why?
I think the last boundary changes were under the last Labour government, to 'favour' their electoral chances - the LD's in coalition refused to support any changes in a hissy fit after losing the SAV referendum. Theresa May threw away her majority before changes to constituencies had been put through.
So Boris will/should even out average size of constituencies. Immediately.
The SNP only got 4% of the national vote. Proposed independence affects us all so we all (E/W/S/NI) should have a say in any attempt to break up the UK. IMHO.
Or they could move into this millennium and bin first past the post.For (in an ideological sense) a single issue party this is a pretty big 'fail'.
If I were Boris Johnson, the first thing I would 'do' (after Brexit), would be boundary changes.
Size of constituencies by electorate
The number of people able to vote (the electorate) differs by constituency. The Office for National Statistics gives the average electorate across constituencies of about:
72,200 in England
67,200 in Scotland
68,300 in Northern Ireland
56,000 in Wales
Source https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-...
This shows that the Welsh / Scottish and Northern Irish are 'better' (in a quantitative if not a qualitative sense!) represented than us English.
Why?
I think the last boundary changes were under the last Labour government, to 'favour' their electoral chances - the LD's in coalition refused to support any changes in a hissy fit after losing the SAV referendum. Theresa May threw away her majority before changes to constituencies had been put through.
So Boris will/should even out average size of constituencies. Immediately.
The SNP only got 4% of the national vote. Proposed independence affects us all so we all (E/W/S/NI) should have a say in any attempt to break up the UK. IMHO.
Only Ed Milliband would sabotage his parties chances of power for ideological democratic reasons.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff