Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Big Easy said:
It's exactly that sort of arrogance that drives the independence movement - an Englishman wanting to vote on the future of Scotland.
Imagine the outcry if all EU citizens, not just those resident in the UK, had been able to vote in the Brexit referendum.
I think the poster might be angling for a UK vote on whether to disband the union. The SNP has done a lot to damage the cohesion of the UK and I suspect there are many in England who would feel "a plague on all your houses".Imagine the outcry if all EU citizens, not just those resident in the UK, had been able to vote in the Brexit referendum.
Big Easy said:
Cantaloupe said:
Mr Tidy said:
And yet the 4 or 5 million Scots get to vote on their independence, but the other 55+ million UK voters don't get to vote on it. 
Oh God, I think you've banged your head too much dude, why would you get a vote on whether Scotland should stay or leave the UK?It's for the voters of Scotland to decide, dearie me, and this doo-hickey is allowed to vote !!!
Imagine the outcry if all EU citizens, not just those resident in the UK, had been able to vote in the Brexit referendum.
Hugo a Gogo said:
It's quite hard for me, as a Brit passport holder born in Scotland, to see why I wasn't allowed to vote on brexit or indy and wouldn't be allowed to vote on indyref2
I understand your point of view but it seems reasonable to me that voting on both these matters would be exclusively for the people who reside in the country in which the referendum relates to.I don't see the problem with the DVLA stuff. It would just continue as it is in an outsourced capacity at a cost of course to the Scottish government. It isn't necessary to own and run all your own infrastructure. It's a moot point anyway as the whole independence thing is chasing a rainbow to find a unicorn. "Scotland's people", as wee Krankie keeps referring to, are not all of the same opinioin as herself. You could have a vote tomorrow and it would be 45% for 55% against. That won't change in this generation.
The Scottish election results do give the SNP a mandate to ask for a new referendum.
But there is no reason for Boris to agree, except that a refusal might make the Scots even more determined. Sorry, there is no ‘might’ there.
Couple of little issues remain:
What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
But there is no reason for Boris to agree, except that a refusal might make the Scots even more determined. Sorry, there is no ‘might’ there.
Couple of little issues remain:
What currency would an independent Scotland use, and how would they control it?
If they join the EU, what would the land border with the brexited UK look like?
biggbn said:
rossub said:
biggbn said:
Huge result for snp regardless of the independence question. I genuinely believe Boris Tories win should be respected and the mandate if gives them to carry out Brexit honoured. But not everyone who voted for them made it about Brexit. Pretty similar up here with snp. Anyone who voted for them and for whom imdependence is not a huge issue must surely know it IS for the party they are voting for. It is THE bedrock of that parties beliefs. Therefore, using the goose/gander rule, I would suggest this result gives SNP a decent shout at getting another indyref
Not really. We’ll keep saying it - they only got 45% of the vote.That 45% got them 81% of the seats
Pro Union parties got 54% of the vote, but 19% of the seats
Doesn’t look quite as good then does it?
Edited by biggbn on Friday 13th December 15:13
SNP votes - 1.2m, 48 seats
Lib Dem votes - 3.7m, 11 seats
Bizarre situation and there is a proposal by the Tories to alter boundaries of constituencies to counter it somewhat I understand.
Big-Bo-Beep said:
Scotland is going to have to rely on the goodwill of the new UK for many years post separation, DVLA, Passports, Rail and Air accident investigations, what happens if a major air crash or rail accident happens in Scotland ? such independent infrastructures will take years to put in place.
Even something as simple as a on-track crane, Network Rail have none in Scotland.
Not up there with having to drive on right and being more susceptible to UFO attack but has potential Even something as simple as a on-track crane, Network Rail have none in Scotland.
rossub said:
I don’t have an answer, but to further the point....
SNP votes - 1.2m, 48 seats
Lib Dem votes - 3.7m, 11 seats
Bizarre situation and there is a proposal by the Tories to alter boundaries of constituencies to counter it somewhat I understand.
It's quite simple, the SNP only stand candidates in 59 seats, similarly the likes of SF, DUP & PC only stand in NI/WalesSNP votes - 1.2m, 48 seats
Lib Dem votes - 3.7m, 11 seats
Bizarre situation and there is a proposal by the Tories to alter boundaries of constituencies to counter it somewhat I understand.
Unless you don't think that the 4 countries* in the UK deserve some kind of "proportional representation" when 85% of the voting population decides between Labour or the Tories to see who leads the country?
- 2 countries
- 1 principality?
- 1 province
Big-Bo-Beep said:
rossub said:
SNP votes - 1.2m, 48 seats
Lib Dem votes - 3.7m, 11 seats
Bizarre situation and there is a proposal by the Tories to alter boundaries of constituencies to counter it somewhat I understand.
That is a very worrying statistic, we really do have a undemocratic election systemLib Dem votes - 3.7m, 11 seats
Bizarre situation and there is a proposal by the Tories to alter boundaries of constituencies to counter it somewhat I understand.
Strocky said:
It's quite simple, the SNP only stand candidates in 59 seats, similarly the likes of SF, DUP & PC only stand in NI/Wales
Thanks Columbo, that doesn't explain anything. The total number of Lib Dem votes were not fairly represented in parliamentary seats,
they would do if we had a fit for purpose voting system.
Ayahuasca said:
Another issue - when a nation leaves a larger union (see Brexit) the leaving nation commits to paying the leaving bill. How would Scotland afford that?
And how would it raise enough taxes to pay for all its expenses - it is currently subsidised by the rest of the UK ?
Answer A, that's not how international law works re successor states, re Brexit/EU membership that was a trade agreement entered into by the UK Gov of the day for tangible/intangible benefits (and subsequently a reason why some wanted to leave)And how would it raise enough taxes to pay for all its expenses - it is currently subsidised by the rest of the UK ?
Answer B, Scotland isn't subsidised, Scotland gets around 50% of the it's tax revenues returned (after deductions from the UK Gov)
As an independent country Scotland could decide to either raise taxes or cut services if required to do so fiscally
The UK could have had a £1Tn+ sovereign oil fund like Norway (in fact Tony Benn argued for it but was overuled by Labour's cabiner & PM at the time)
It's been squandered by successive governments initially to clear IMF loans and latterly to give tax breaks to big business
You can look around the globe and see other countries where the state pension is 2 to 3 times that of the UK, where inequality is lesser, where paternity and unemployment rights are far greater, look at their GDP and Scotland's and make an analysis :
Could Scotland be a success (not just fiscally but as an egalitarian state) or would it be like Greece without the sun/Panama without the hats/Norway without the oil?
El stovey said:
The two main parties seem reluctant to change the system for some reason.
I seem to remember we had a referendum about it not that long ago, and the country decided that the current system was fine.The interesting question is whether the Scots actively voted for the SNP ... or against the rest. From the perspective of an Englishman who quite likes Scotland (Edinburgh is a great place to live and work), I’m at the “plague on all your houses” level. If they want to go, go, sod off. Just stop bloody whining about it,
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