Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8

[hutchst]

Big Easy said:

Or they could move into this millennium and bin first past the post.

Absolutely. What we need is to be governed in perpetuity by governments with no overall majority. It works so well.

[simoid]

hutchst said:

Absolutely. What we need is to be governed in perpetuity by governments with no overall majority. It works so well.

Ah yes, but the SNP got a majority government in a system specifically designed to prevent such an occurrence.


/nationalist soundbyte

[Evercross]

simoid said:

Ah yes, but the SNP got a majority government in a system specifically designed to prevent such an occurrence.


/nationalist soundbyte

And Scotland got a Tory Government it didn't vote for.

/nationalist soundbyte

...and the same system delivered 22 SNP MPs that they 'didn't vote for' either!

Politicians only seem to complain about electoral systems when they don't seem to be working in their favour. As it always was, so it shall always be.....

Edited by Evercross on Saturday 14th December 12:26

[B210bandit]

powerstroke said:

Strocky said:

Cantaloupe said:

Strocky said:

At the end of the day, Scotland and England as a whole appear to be diverging on sociopolitical lines

Political maybe yes, but Scotland has always diverged from England, haven't we always been Tory light and Labour heavy ?

Any evidence that the cultural and social ties that binds Scotland to England/Wales is waning ?

I detect a not unsurprising weariness and irritation from the English with the SNP whinging about not having enough powers to fix things and when they get the powers they don't use them, also they are tired of the Sturgeon, she is a broken record these days

I think the English have to congratulated .for their patience over the last few years, a bunch of useless, subsidised ungovernable
tossbags over the Irish sea, now a bunch of moaning tossbags north of Carlisle.

Who'd be an English taxpayer ?

Simmering constrained English nationalism unleashed via the medium of Brexit has broke the Union on both sides of the sea, nothing more, nothing less

It's to be celebrated not mourned, going forward all the countries involved (unshackled) can plot their own course in the big bad world

Sorry I think you will find the problem is Devolution and the SNP having a really bad dose of doctors receptionist syndrome,
Needs a Scottish university to do a proper model of what independence would look like for a starters .. make a documentary
and broadcast it on all the tv channels at the same time ..

Ask New Zealand. Similar population, farming people many of whom are Scottish in origin. Much more isolated than Scotland so not a diverse economy like Scotland. Independence looks OK. They don't miss being told what to do by London.

[technodup]

B210bandit said:

Ask New Zealand. Similar population, farming people many of whom are Scottish in origin. Much more isolated than Scotland so not a diverse economy like Scotland. Independence looks OK. They don't miss being told what to do by London.

Is it in the EU?

[Klippie]

During the election did anyone notice if the the SNP spoke about anything else bar independence, my understanding was they were elected to run the Scottish Government and look after the needs of Scotland and its people, so in election mode they should have been disscussing all the things they were going to improve on to give us a better standard of living to keep us all happy.

But all we got was independence, independence, independence, independence....on and on.

I cannot understand why they can't see what good thing they have going up here they are totally unopposed and have a free rein to run things as they please, if they are as good as they claim we up here in Scotland should have the lowest unemployment, plenty of Police to keep the streets safe, a health service with the highest level of care and public services the envey of the rest of the UK...but in reality we have none of those things under the SNP.

And the blame is with who...Westminster it would seem well that's were all the SNP fingers point as they are the so called English establishment so it must be all their fault that Scotland is being held back.

So in an independent Scotland free from Westminsters meddlings and free from the treasury coffers what will the SNP do to make Scotland prosper I would love to see a plan one that does not involve Europe after all thats what the SNP want is it not independence for Scotland to stand on its own to feet.

But we would not be independant we would be shackled to Europe and all thier demands before one single Euro of funding that the SNP desperatly requires to run Scotland would be handed over Scotland would be for ever in debt to Brussels if they don't like being attached to the UK I don't think they will like the other option either at least with the UK there is no conditions to getting funding from the Treasury.

[Welshbeef]

B210bandit said:

Ask New Zealand. Similar population, farming people many of whom are Scottish in origin. Much more isolated than Scotland so not a diverse economy like Scotland. Independence looks OK. They don't miss being told what to do by London.

Did NZ break away and on day 1 a £15billion/7% deficit not using its own currency so unable to borrow and also a legacy debt of >>£300billion. An unsustainable debt level relative to its GDP.

Answer NO. It was running utterly self sufficiently before it became independent.

If you and these SNATS somehow think your walking away without shouldering the legacy debt then you’ve another thing coming. A pariah in the financial markets plus the tariffs the rUK would put on your goods would be so high and possibly banned until the debt is paid would mean you instantly 100% lose all trade to rUK which is about 70% of all your trade. There is billy big balls then billy f.£king retarded.

[simoid]

B210bandit said:

Ask New Zealand. Similar population, farming people many of whom are Scottish in origin. Much more isolated than Scotland so not a diverse economy like Scotland. Independence looks OK. They don't miss being told what to do by London.

You don’t see North Island fking off from South Island to join a union with Australia and Papua New Guinea though, do you? Naw you don’t. Cos it would be bat st.

[Wombat3]

Big Easy said:

Big-Bo-Beep said:

Scotland is going to have to rely on the goodwill of the new UK for many years post separation, DVLA, Passports, Rail and Air accident investigations, what happens if a major air crash or rail accident happens in Scotland ? such independent infrastructures will take years to put in place.

Even something as simple as a on-track crane, Network Rail have none in Scotland.

I'm not denying that there would be a huge amount of work required if independence ever happened, though I don't believe that these matters are insurmountable.

These are not the elephant on the room, that's Pensions (private and state), SIPPs & ISAs

[Welshbeef]

Wombat3 said:

Big Easy said:

Big-Bo-Beep said:

Scotland is going to have to rely on the goodwill of the new UK for many years post separation, DVLA, Passports, Rail and Air accident investigations, what happens if a major air crash or rail accident happens in Scotland ? such independent infrastructures will take years to put in place.

Even something as simple as a on-track crane, Network Rail have none in Scotland.

I'm not denying that there would be a huge amount of work required if independence ever happened, though I don't believe that these matters are insurmountable.

These are not the elephant on the room, that's Pensions (private and state), SIPPs & ISAs

And the share of the £2 trillion UK debt from day 1 plus the 7% deficit financing from day 1.

[Ayahuasca]

I can see the emotional argument for independence - it is what every patriot should want for their country.

But the English do not have same yearning for English independence. Maybe because most English people identify as British first and view Scotland and Wales also as parts of Britain.

Interestingly King James VI and I (Scottish born) referred to Scotland as North Britain. Didn’t seem to take though.

[Borghetto]

technodup said:

B210bandit said:

Ask New Zealand. Similar population, farming people many of whom are Scottish in origin. Much more isolated than Scotland so not a diverse economy like Scotland. Independence looks OK. They don't miss being told what to do by London.

Is it in the EU?

No, but neither will an iScotland

[simoid]

Ayahuasca said:

I can see the emotional argument for independence - it is what every patriot should want for their country.

But the English do not have same yearning for English independence. Maybe because most English people identify as British first and view Scotland and Wales also as parts of Britain.

Interestingly King James VI and I (Scottish born) referred to Scotland as North Britain. Didn’t seem to take though.

I identify as Scottish first. I remember doing a survey before our generational indyref and it asked if you felt more Scottish or British. I thought I’d better answer British or the surveymakers would get the idea that I was a Scottish nationalist and wanted independence. But I outthought myself. I-’m perfectly happy saying I’m Scottish first, but it doesn’t mean I’m wanting us to leave the UK.

“Where you from?”
“Scotland”

Always been natural.

“You British?”
“Yeah, well, Scottish.”

Natural too.

[TheFungle]

Cantaloupe said:

Any evidence that the cultural and social ties that binds Scotland to England/Wales is waning ?

As a Scotsman living in England I think it's undeniable that there is a difference in mentality between the two countries; this is evidenced increasingly with every visit home and talking to friends and family.

There is a 'hardness' to England right now which when I compare the two countries I see them as vastly different.

I also notice a similar effect when visiting the Republic of Ireland, Scotland truly does feel a separate country.

[Big Robbo]

Let's have a referendum, in England and Wales only to see if we want Scotland leeching off the rest of us. That way The troll becomes even more irrelevant with her "mandate" talk.

[Evercross]

TheFungle said:

There is a 'hardness' to England right now which when I compare the two countries I see them as vastly different.

Nah, no no no no!



Our residents SNats will be along shortly to tell you that it has nothing to do with being anti-English. One will even link to a (zombie) website that claims to be run by a bunch of English people who sincerely support Scottish Independence.

[WindyCommon]

The Scots can have their referendum. I think they are entitled to it.

But any such referendum must be a choice between known alternatives. The principal terms of separation and our subsequent relationship must be agreed in advance. The Scots should know what they are voting for.

It would be crass mismanagement to run another referendum where those pushing for change seek to secure a “peoples mandate” through emotional appeals and undeliverable promises, whilst those happy with the status quo run a project-fear style campaign.

[Cantaloupe]

The SNP are happy to feed off the " Braveheart " aspect, piffling details that we should
know about BEFORE another referendum such as currency, NATO membership, passports, the border,
trade deals, EU membership, defence, VAT rate, Income Tax rate, Etc. will all be sorted out later.

[Janluke]

I'm not convinced the SNP want a second referendum at the moment, there hasnt been a big enough shift in opinion and people here don't want the same level of uncertainty that brexit has delivered. I think their aim is to get Boris to refuse thus enabling them to whip up a storm of outrage and fan the flames hoping the numbers change

[Pastor Of Muppets]

A 2nd ref if there was one would be a very different affair from the first one, brexit being the main reason.

The electorate are now in possesion of a lot more facts regarding breaking away from a union than they were
in 2014, they have seen the problems it can cause, For more than 3 years now it has been on the news every single
day relentlessly and caused nothing but chaos and division, and that will undoubtedly have a huge impact on a
potential Scexit. I think it will now be a much harder sell than it ever was.

Combine that with the fact that 55% of Scots didn't vote for the SNP and not all of their 45% of voters want independence,
plus Boris making it crystal clear he isn't going to give the go ahead, then I dont think we need worry about the
misery of having to go through yet another devisive referendum any time soon.