Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Garvin said:
Composer62 said:
technodup said:
Composer62 said:
I'm at a loss .. Sturgeon saying they've won the election ?
Sturgeon's a fanny, don't listen to her.Oh I'm not listening to her ..but people of Scotland ... WTF ?
Johnson or Corbyn .... mmmmmmmm
Big Robbo said:
Well done and congratulations to the people of Scotland. You've voted and have got the results you deserve. You can now moan about the English as much as you like, you can say the SNP represents you as a nation but guess what? You voted to remain as part of the United Kingdom which therefore makes the Scottish troll and her acolytes ( thats you lot for the hard of thinking) irrelevant
calm down big man, look at the actual numbers that voted snp to understand the real percentage of the population up here that support them. remember more scots voted to leave the eu than voted for snp at the last election.wc98 said:
Big Robbo said:
Well done and congratulations to the people of Scotland. You've voted and have got the results you deserve. You can now moan about the English as much as you like, you can say the SNP represents you as a nation but guess what? You voted to remain as part of the United Kingdom which therefore makes the Scottish troll and her acolytes ( thats you lot for the hard of thinking) irrelevant
calm down big man, look at the actual numbers that voted snp to understand the real percentage of the population up here that support them. remember more scots voted to leave the eu than voted for snp at the last election.More like "some of the people of Scotland".
simoid said:
Ken whit? f
k it. Let’s have indyref 2 and punt the SNP into oblivion.
Bump. Let’s do it! k it. Let’s have indyref 2 and punt the SNP into oblivion.Can’t believe it’s 45% again. Well, I can, but it’s peculiar. Almost like we’re going round and round in the same circle.
Indyref would break it. And let’s have the negotiations first so there can be no comebacks. Sturgeon gets the best deal she can out of Boris then the Scottish people vote on it.
“We’ll have an EU border with you, you aren’t getting a currency union, we need Trident to stay in the Clyde for NATO security, the oil is split by population share as per international convention...”
Wrathalanche said:
No matter what happened today, the SNP would trot out the "Victory" line. They did it a couple of years ago at the council elections where they got a good drubbing off the Conservatives. They have done well in terms of seats, yes, but I don't buy the conclusions they take away from it.
The numbers are interesting, especially that 45% vote share figure. But, also, comparing to the Brexit referendum, where ~63% in Scotland voted Remain, in this election only 55.5% voted for parties that were explicitly remain (SNP, LD, Greens).
I still don't understand all this mandate talk though. They are very slightly less powerful than when they lost the Indy ref. They weren't rabbiting on about such mandates for further referenda in 2015, as the defeat from 2014 was still too fresh.
I notice Sturgeon's language is changing though, and is pivoting away from promising a 2nd referendum in 2020 and is more banging the drum about just gaining the power to call one. I suspect seeing today's result she knows she still can't win an independence poll, and wants to claim some other big scalp to help stave off attacks within her own party and supporters next year when they expect to bust the blue face paint out. It will be just yet another power she can claim to have but never use.
It was nice to see her acknowledge that some of the votes for the SNP were not votes for Independence.The numbers are interesting, especially that 45% vote share figure. But, also, comparing to the Brexit referendum, where ~63% in Scotland voted Remain, in this election only 55.5% voted for parties that were explicitly remain (SNP, LD, Greens).
I still don't understand all this mandate talk though. They are very slightly less powerful than when they lost the Indy ref. They weren't rabbiting on about such mandates for further referenda in 2015, as the defeat from 2014 was still too fresh.
I notice Sturgeon's language is changing though, and is pivoting away from promising a 2nd referendum in 2020 and is more banging the drum about just gaining the power to call one. I suspect seeing today's result she knows she still can't win an independence poll, and wants to claim some other big scalp to help stave off attacks within her own party and supporters next year when they expect to bust the blue face paint out. It will be just yet another power she can claim to have but never use.
If Labour had a decent leader and half sensible policies, the SNP wouldn’t have anything like that kind of support.
wc98 said:
Big Robbo said:
Well done and congratulations to the people of Scotland. You've voted and have got the results you deserve. You can now moan about the English as much as you like, you can say the SNP represents you as a nation but guess what? You voted to remain as part of the United Kingdom which therefore makes the Scottish troll and her acolytes ( thats you lot for the hard of thinking) irrelevant
calm down big man, look at the actual numbers that voted snp to understand the real percentage of the population up here that support them. remember more scots voted to leave the eu than voted for snp at the last election.feef said:
By the same metric, 54% of the UK electorate voted for pro remain or pro people’s vote parties.
Fair point, but both referenda are now effectively settled and people are voting for what should come after. As Nicola herself said - not every vote for the SNP in this election was a vote for independence.It was good to hear Andrew Marr's pragmatic summation of the SNP position now - that this result and inevitable Brexit leaves the SNP further away from an Independence referendum re-run and win as they will be proposing a 'double-out' as he put it - out of the EU and out of the UK.
Realpolitik will now kick in....
Edited by Evercross on Friday 13th December 09:02
simoid said:
Bump. Let’s do it!
Can’t believe it’s 45% again. Well, I can, but it’s peculiar. Almost like we’re going round and round in the same circle.
Indyref would break it. And let’s have the negotiations first so there can be no comebacks. Sturgeon gets the best deal she can out of Boris then the Scottish people vote on it.
“We’ll have an EU border with you, you aren’t getting a currency union, we need Trident to stay in the Clyde for NATO security, the oil is split by population share as per international convention...”
I'm coming round to the idea. Just like this election was required to break parliament's Brexit position, a 2nd referendum would kill independence stone dead.Can’t believe it’s 45% again. Well, I can, but it’s peculiar. Almost like we’re going round and round in the same circle.
Indyref would break it. And let’s have the negotiations first so there can be no comebacks. Sturgeon gets the best deal she can out of Boris then the Scottish people vote on it.
“We’ll have an EU border with you, you aren’t getting a currency union, we need Trident to stay in the Clyde for NATO security, the oil is split by population share as per international convention...”
Problem is Sturgeon knows that too, and when support has flat-lined since 2014 she doesn't really want one. Plenty more hot air talk of mandates to come though.
If Scotland did win the bid to become independent it won’t happen before 31st January and they’ll leave the EU with England right? Then if they do become independent won’t they then have to meet certain requirements to rejoin the EU , wait years and vote to join. Then they could end up with a hard border with England and we will be in the exact same situation as Northern Ireland. We may have decades of more uncertainty
technodup said:
'm coming round to the idea. Just like this election was required to break parliament's Brexit position, a 2nd referendum would kill independence stone dead.
Problem is Sturgeon knows that too, and when support has flat-lined since 2014 she doesn't really want one. Plenty more hot air talk of mandates to come though.
'Get Brexit Done' and support for independence will wilt IMO, and Boris knows this. Nicola has sustained the indy vote on a false prospectus of accession to EU membership and that pretence evaporates in exactly 49 days.Problem is Sturgeon knows that too, and when support has flat-lined since 2014 she doesn't really want one. Plenty more hot air talk of mandates to come though.
Evercross said:
'Get Brexit Done' and support for independence will wilt IMO, and Boris knows this. Nicola has sustained the indy vote on a false prospectus of accession to EU membership and that pretence evaporates in exactly 49 days.
I hope she enjoys Xmas because for various reasons the new year isn't looking good for her. 
Pretty much an expected result for them.
The prospect of a Tory government was always going to bring the snp folk out.
I worked the election again.
I had 1552 names on my list, 200 of them had postal votes, out of the 1352 left, we had 970 turn up.
However, I was working in “little Ireland” so they were always going to vote snp as they have shifted from labour.
Pleased for the remaining Tory mps.
If Boris plays this right, he could kill the Indy movement off properly.
The prospect of a Tory government was always going to bring the snp folk out.
I worked the election again.
I had 1552 names on my list, 200 of them had postal votes, out of the 1352 left, we had 970 turn up.
However, I was working in “little Ireland” so they were always going to vote snp as they have shifted from labour.
Pleased for the remaining Tory mps.
If Boris plays this right, he could kill the Indy movement off properly.
A.J.M said:
Pretty much an expected result for them.
The prospect of a Tory government was always going to bring the snp folk out.
I worked the election again.
I had 1552 names on my list, 200 of them had postal votes, out of the 1352 left, we had 970 turn up.
However, I was working in “little Ireland” so they were always going to vote snp as they have shifted from labour.
Pleased for the remaining Tory mps.
If Boris plays this right, he could kill the Indy movement off properly.
Coatbridge, Chryston & Bellshill by any chance? Given Corbyn managed to take that back last time out, it's the sort of place that Labour should be holding with a big majority if they ever harbour any ambitions of getting back into power. Wonder what it would take to swing somewhere like that back to them. I'd love to hear some detailed polling as to voter motivation etc. in seats like that from people who switched Labour -> SNP in 2015 -> Labour in 2017 -> SNP in 2019 - clearly there's a reasonable number given the way this seat & others nearby have switched back & forth in the last few elections.The prospect of a Tory government was always going to bring the snp folk out.
I worked the election again.
I had 1552 names on my list, 200 of them had postal votes, out of the 1352 left, we had 970 turn up.
However, I was working in “little Ireland” so they were always going to vote snp as they have shifted from labour.
Pleased for the remaining Tory mps.
If Boris plays this right, he could kill the Indy movement off properly.
There will be a substantial body of voters that will never vote Tory. Split that vote between Labour and SNP and the Conservatives can take advantage. With the collapse of the Labour vote, and we have todays result.
It is, of course, not a long time ago that the Conservative vote collapsed.
It is, of course, not a long time ago that the Conservative vote collapsed.
Get out of the EU, let the dust settle and then in 3yrs give Sturgeon a 2 stage ref option.
1) Scotland to vote on whether it wants and indy ref BUT the caveat being it will be whole of UK voting
2) Ref if the Scots say yes please. Put to be forever if not
Also needs to be a serious review of boundaries north of the border (and across the board). So many seats for so few votes, and with a devolved parliament is mental.
1) Scotland to vote on whether it wants and indy ref BUT the caveat being it will be whole of UK voting
2) Ref if the Scots say yes please. Put to be forever if not
Also needs to be a serious review of boundaries north of the border (and across the board). So many seats for so few votes, and with a devolved parliament is mental.
Evercross said:
Murph7355 said:
Get out of the EU, let the dust settle and then in 3yrs give Sturgeon a 2 stage ref option.
Sturgeon might be out on her arse by then. 2021 Holyrood referendum - why do you think she is in such a hurry?I think her drum banging will only get louder, those who march to the beat will get louder too. We're in for a toxic few years. I just hope any investment in Scotland isn't affected too much.
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