House of Commons shooting?

[rscott]

bmw535i said:

I presume everyone here knows the current threat level is severe. This means an attack is highly likely and only one under the top level where an attack is imminent.

And has been at that level since August 2014. So we're not considered to be in more danger than we were then..

[turbobloke]

rscott said:

bmw535i said:

rscott said:

No one's denying there's a major problem

Er, yes there is.

I know - that's? why I said no one is denying that there is one!

[Gavia]

Deptford Draylons said:

No, I quite clearly didn't say 'all' and have backed that up several times now. I'd suggest you want to hear that so you can do as you did and shout 'fascist' so you can ignore it.
I'm never that interested in people who scream that first and who lack the intelligence to offer up a counter debate. I made the point that things like the Trojan horse problem are a part of the issue here to a much lesser degree and low level stuff at what I call a pyramid.
If you lack the ability to debate and only scream 'fascist' , I may write you off as an idiot.

You're referencing their whole culture on the back of 0.1% of the population being on a watch list as being fundamentally rotten. I'm offering up plenty of debate, but you're struggling to see the point that you've made, however wrong it is.

A watch list is there for many reasons, but they're not all necessarily terrorists. Also, this pyramid that you speak of, is your construct. You've not connected any of the people in this pyramid to each other.

Oh, and don't bother with the name calling, it's a bit dull.

[anonymous-user]

rscott said:

I know - that's? why I said no one is denying that there is one!

I meant there are people saying there isn't a problem

p1stonhead said:

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There clearly is but 99.9% of UK Muslims are peaceful people with nothing to do wth this sort of thing.

For the record, I find all religion nonsense and the sooner it all dies out the better.

As has already been pointed out, and you'll agree if you know anything at all about this topic, there will be many others apart from the 3000 known who are sympathetic/aware/involved in the periphery etc.

So what can we do about the problem you acknowledge?

rscott said:

And has been at that level since August 2014. So we're not considered to be in more danger than we were then..

I'm not sure what your point is? I don't think anyone is saying it's a new problem. There are certainly more people in Syria now though which will increase the problem when they return.

[Disastrous]

Deptford Draylons said:

. I can only liken this number of people as to anyone who in 1943 watched video footage of Nazis pushing people into ovens and saying 'these guys have got it right, they are for me' and rushing out to join them

Sorry, I genuinely can't even understand what you're saying here. I'm reading it over and over but it just doesn't scan...I'm assuming there are a couple of typos etc but still...no idea!

[Gavia]

turbobloke said:

To be clear at the outset, I don't 'blame all'.

I didn't read the comment from DD 'something fundamentally rotten' as blaming all either. It's patently obvious that there are a number of rotten apples, and that's the 'something'. The size of that number and therefore the size of the something is another matter altogether, it doesn't have to be 'all'.

To finish where I started, I don't blame all, only those that are blameworthy.

Another thing - somebody on local radio, which is a national network, just said that we mustn't let this act of terror create division. Hmmm.

With respect to that unknown person...the idea that one part of society (whatever the number within it) killing innocent people hasn't already created a division is silly. What they mean is that those of us who are peace-loving and tolerant and non-racist and supporters of a free democratic society should work to ensure if possible that the division created by the rotten apples isn't widened by our over-reaction.

As human nature is involved, some reaction is inevitable but it should be constrained by our own civility and decency even in the face of horrendous acts of terror.

There is a difference between a few rotten apples and something being fundamentally rotten. A few rotten apples can be thrown away, but if something is fundamentally rotten then it is beyond repair as it is rotten throughout. I do not believe the Muslim society is fundamentally rotten.

If someone described my car as fundamentally rotten, then it would be for the scrap heap, if they pointed out that c0.1% of it had rust then it's fixable.

Edited by Gavia on Saturday 25th March 12:54

[anonymous-user]

Disastrous said:

Sorry, I genuinely can't even understand what you're saying here. I'm reading it over and over but it just doesn't scan...I'm assuming there are a couple of typos etc but still...no idea!

It has been said you're quite obtuse.

[Disastrous]

bmw535i said:

Disastrous said:

Sorry, I genuinely can't even understand what you're saying here. I'm reading it over and over but it just doesn't scan...I'm assuming there are a couple of typos etc but still...no idea!

It has been said you're quite obtuse.

Has it? By whom?

[m3jappa]

Islam and in fact all religion is a fking joke, a massive fking joke, I don't care if that offends people tbh. I find religion offensive.

If I were to start spouting off about aliens building the pyramids I'd be mocked, and rightly so. But in 2017 it's perfectly acceptable to believe in a god? Wtf get a grip people.

I want to like everyone and I try to, but I can't pander to something which is a joke. I'm sorry about that. And btw 3000 people on a watch list? How many aren't on a watchlist? It's like drug dealers, the police will know about a lot but they won't know about a lot more, it's pretty obvious that.
I saw a video the other day on Facebook showing loads of thumbs up and laughing faces on the Al jazera fb live feed. That is totally unacceptable.

I find it offensive that the majority has been brainwashed into pandering to these people. no one panders to me in any respect, and I tell you what I'm a decent bloke, I'd do anything to help anyone, yes even a Muslim!

[rscott]

bmw535i said:

rscott said:

I know - that's? why I said no one is denying that there is one!

I meant there are people saying there isn't a problem - then quote them not someone saying the opposite!

p1stonhead said:

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There clearly is but 99.9% of UK Muslims are peaceful people with nothing to do wth this sort of thing.

For the record, I find all religion nonsense and the sooner it all dies out the better.

As has already been pointed out, and you'll agree if you know anything at all about this topic, there will be many others apart from the 3000 known who are sympathetic/aware/involved in the periphery etc.

So what can we do about the problem you acknowledge?

rscott said:

And has been at that level since August 2014. So we're not considered to be in more danger than we were then..

I'm not sure what your point is? I don't think anyone is saying it's a new problem. There are certainly more people in Syria now though which will increase the problem when they return.

You're the one who brought the threat level into it. I assumed you did so for a reason...

[rscott]

m3jappa said:

Islam and in fact all religion is a fking joke, a massive fking joke, I don't care if that offends people tbh. I find religion offensive.

If I were to start spouting off about aliens building the pyramids I'd be mocked, and rightly so. But in 2017 it's perfectly acceptable to believe in a god? Wtf get a grip people.

I want to like everyone and I try to, but I can't pander to something which is a joke. I'm sorry about that. And btw 3000 people on a watch list? How many aren't on a watchlist? It's like drug dealers, the police will know about a lot but they won't know about a lot more, it's pretty obvious that.
I saw a video the other day on Facebook showing loads of thumbs up and laughing faces on the Al jazera fb live feed. That is totally unacceptable.

I find it offensive that the majority has been brainwashed into pandering to these people. no one panders to me in any respect, and I tell you what I'm a decent bloke, I'd do anything to help anyone, yes even a Muslim!

Was the video by Paul Joseph Watson of Prison Planet/ Infowars by any chance? He tweeted images of that live feed which didn't match the actual feed on their Facebook page..

[anonymous-user]

Gavia said:

There is a difference between a few rotten apples and something being fundamentally rotten. A few rotten apples can be thrown away, but if something is fundamentally rotten then it is beyond repair as it is rotten throughout. I do not believe the Muslim society is fundamentally rotten.

If someone described my car as fundamentally rotten, then it would be for the scrap heap, if they pointed out that c0.1% of it had rust then it's fixable.

Edited by Gavia on Saturday 25th March 12:54

If you can see 0.1% of your car is rust, you can be sure there is a seat seated problem. Get underneath it and have a look. Open up the wheel arches, lift the carpets, get in the boot under the spare wheel etc etc

[Disastrous]

bmw535i said:

Gavia said:

There is a difference between a few rotten apples and something being fundamentally rotten. A few rotten apples can be thrown away, but if something is fundamentally rotten then it is beyond repair as it is rotten throughout. I do not believe the Muslim society is fundamentally rotten.

If someone described my car as fundamentally rotten, then it would be for the scrap heap, if they pointed out that c0.1% of it had rust then it's fixable.

Edited by Gavia on Saturday 25th March 12:54

If you can see 0.1% of your car is rust, you can be sure there is a seat seated problem. Get underneath it and have a look. Open up the wheel arches, lift the carpets, get in the boot under the spare wheel etc etc

It might just be a patch of rust.

[anonymous-user]

rscott said:

You're the one who brought the threat level into it. I assumed you did so for a reason...

Well to show that the security services believe we're at risk. They have done for some time and it shows no sign of decreasing

[anonymous-user]

Disastrous said:

It might just be a patch of rust.

You won't know till you go looking. I can guarantee you'll find more somewhere

[Deptford Draylons]

Gavia said:

Deptford Draylons said:

No, I quite clearly didn't say 'all' and have backed that up several times now. I'd suggest you want to hear that so you can do as you did and shout 'fascist' so you can ignore it.
I'm never that interested in people who scream that first and who lack the intelligence to offer up a counter debate. I made the point that things like the Trojan horse problem are a part of the issue here to a much lesser degree and low level stuff at what I call a pyramid.
If you lack the ability to debate and only scream 'fascist' , I may write you off as an idiot.

You're referencing their whole culture on the back of 0.1% of the population being on a watch list as being fundamentally rotten. I'm offering up plenty of debate, but you're struggling to see the point that you've made, however wrong it is.

A watch list is there for many reasons, but they're not all necessarily terrorists. Also, this pyramid that you speak of, is your construct. You've not connected any of the people in this pyramid to each other.

Oh, and don't bother with the name calling, it's a bit dull.

You complain about name calling after calling me a fascist ? Well at least you have a sense of humour fella.

On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.

I also did reference their whole culture as you put it or say 'all' at any time. Given your only ability to shout fascist first, I'm not surprised you have to try and stuff incendiary words into my mouth.

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

Disastrous said:

It might just be a patch of rust.

You won't know till you go looking. I can guarantee you'll find more somewhere

You guarantee? How are you going to do that then?

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

You guarantee? How are you going to do that then?

By looking for more

Are you going to answer my question about the solution to the problem you acknowledge there is?

[Disastrous]

bmw535i said:

Disastrous said:

It might just be a patch of rust.

You won't know till you go looking. I can guarantee you'll find more somewhere

I can only speak from my experience but genuinely, my old MX5 had a patch of rust on the sill and there really were no terrorists hidden anywhere else in or around the vehicle. I mean rust, not terrorists.

[Gavia]

bmw535i said:

If you can see 0.1% of your car is rust, you can be sure there is a seat seated problem. Get underneath it and have a look. Open up the wheel arches, lift the carpets, get in the boot under the spare wheel etc etc

That's because you want that to be the case. It's easy to have a damaged bonnet or wing that accounts for all of it.

My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.

Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too