Will May Pay or Hope it Fades Away? £55b exit bill...
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
No wonder the EU is so desperate to get a big wedge of cash out of the UK when it leaves, because they know full well that the German taxpayer will have to stump up all the extra cash needed to kick the failed EU ponzi scheme can down the road a little bit longer. They need that cash to keep the failed wet dream alive a little bit longer, and when the current net beneficiary member state countries realize they will have to start paying money into the EU`s coffers rather than getting handouts from it, they too will leave in droves.
I see you still don't understand what a Ponzi scheme is.
paulrockliffe said:
I'm not convinced you've read that right, the UK will play by the rules, the problem for the EU is that the rules don't say anything about paying for things that the EU has committed to after we've left or paying to be able to buy stuff from the EU or paying any sort of divorce settlement.
Playing by the rules would leave the EU whistling for our cash.
Whether that's how it pans out is another matter, but I think you've probably misread those comments.
The 'withdrawal agreement' mentioned in A50 is not defined, so could take any form. The EU is claiming they want £x as part of the agreement. We can agree, negotiate a lower amount or refuse to pay anything. Playing by the rules would leave the EU whistling for our cash.
Whether that's how it pans out is another matter, but I think you've probably misread those comments.
Essentially, everything and nothing is up for grabs.
Mrr T said:
Richard North with the help of many contributors to Eureferendum.com produced a detailed and credible plan without any access to any civil servants. The lack of a plan was a cynical ploy by team leave to keep the immigration zealots on side.
You're getting as bad as slasher with your fixation on immigration.
Detailed and credible? Says who?
PurpleMoonlight said:
The 'withdrawal agreement' mentioned in A50 is not defined, so could take any form. The EU is claiming they want £x as part of the agreement. We can agree, negotiate a lower amount or refuse to pay anything.
Essentially, everything and nothing is up for grabs.
What you're describing is the same as me asking you for £50 and saying there isn't a law that says you don't have to pay me £50, so you owe me £50.Essentially, everything and nothing is up for grabs.
Of course you're not going to give me £50, unless you want to?
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
That's not to say it can't happen, just that anything beyond what is explicitly set out in law is going to need new legislation and will be problematic, both within Government, within Parliament and within the wider electorate.
A50 is clearly not fit for purpose in many regards, but in the absence of specific guidance, it must defer to the existing legislation to clarify the position. If that's still insufficient then the default would be that there is no legal requirement for a payment, certainly not some figure that can't be justified in law.
I'm sure if we totted up on going commitments to the end of the budget (even though beyond March 2019 is unlikely to have any legal basis), subtracted a contributory share of assets and added back in EU assets based in the UK, then agreed that if there has to be a payment to underpin a trade agreement (FTF!) that there's a reciprocal payment for access to the UK market and both amounts are proportional to the balance of trade, then we'd have an agreement that would be legal, fair, moral and acceptable in the UK.
Does make you wonder why this is dragging out.....
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.PurpleMoonlight said:
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.Sway said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.The budget statement is not the point the budget becomes law, it takes a full process to enact, which is why you see the dates of the introduction of major new policies not being immediate, if they cant get it through Parliament, it doesn't happen.
PurpleMoonlight said:
No I'm not actually.
I'm saying they have the right to ask, no more no less.
Indeed they do and they can because they have by far the strongest hand in the negotiations. Contrary to the arrogant assumptions of Hard Brexiters, the EU will survive without the UK.I'm saying they have the right to ask, no more no less.
If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
Coolbanana said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
No I'm not actually.
I'm saying they have the right to ask, no more no less.
Indeed they do and they can because they have by far the strongest hand in the negotiations. Contrary to the arrogant assumptions of Hard Brexiters, the EU will survive without the UK.I'm saying they have the right to ask, no more no less.
If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
ked.PurpleMoonlight said:
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.in the fullness of time some bright spark will ask the EU two question.
1) how will we make up for the shortfall of the Uk's positive contribution.
2) if the UK walk away how will we make up the short fall in Trade which is already some £60 billion in the EU's favour.
It is the EU that needs educating.
I think most people know there is an unknown element to leaving the EU but there is also a big opportunity also.
Seeing the likes of Blair and Juncker embrace just doesn't help the situation the sooner Merkel gets the election out of the way then the proper negotiations can start with the Organ grinder not the monkey.
1) how will we make up for the shortfall of the Uk's positive contribution.
2) if the UK walk away how will we make up the short fall in Trade which is already some £60 billion in the EU's favour.
It is the EU that needs educating.
I think most people know there is an unknown element to leaving the EU but there is also a big opportunity also.
Seeing the likes of Blair and Juncker embrace just doesn't help the situation the sooner Merkel gets the election out of the way then the proper negotiations can start with the Organ grinder not the monkey.
Coolbanana said:
Indeed they do and they can because they have by far the strongest hand in the negotiations. Contrary to the arrogant assumptions of Hard Brexiters, the EU will survive without the UK.
If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
What absolute nonsense from start to finish.If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Anyone know how much tariffs the UK collects and gives to the EU?
£3.1bn in 2015/16 according to this site:https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/04/04/336...
Sway said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
paulrockliffe said:
If David Davis decides he wants to, well that's nice for him, but there's no legislation that allows him to just give taxpayers money away just because he's a Government Minister. For good reason.
The Government can do pretty much what is likes with the tax revenue it collects.At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
Coolbanana said:
Indeed they do and they can because they have by far the strongest hand in the negotiations. Contrary to the arrogant assumptions of Hard Brexiters, the EU will survive without the UK.
If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
Have you opened the drinks cabinet a bit earlier today ?If UK Plc was so confident they would go for a hard brexit and take on the World alone; show how marvellous their negotiators are and how UK services and products are needed and how eager the Rest of the World want to offer cheap trade deals and sod the EU.
Obviously, many Leavers do want to try that. Sometimes I wish they would so I can laugh later.
But the mere fact that the UK is listening to a Divorce Bill and trying desperately to get Trade talks going is a sign that they are weak. Weak! They NEED the EU to trade in favourable terms but are caught between the ignorant expectations of the Hard Brexiters and Reality.
If it wasn't the Country of my birth kicking itself in the nuts it would be great fun to watch a once-proud Nation demote itself on the World stage through sheer idiocy.
andymadmak said:
Mrr T said:
Richard North with the help of many contributors to Eureferendum.com produced a detailed and credible plan without any access to any civil servants. The lack of a plan was a cynical ploy by team leave to keep the immigration zealots on side.
You're getting as bad as slasher with your fixation on immigration.
Detailed and credible? Says who?
Mrr T said:
The Budget is about taxation and certain benefits. It will include estimations of expenditure but there is no commitment as to where money will be spent.
At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
Where does £5bn come from?At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
sidicks said:
Mrr T said:
The Budget is about taxation and certain benefits. It will include estimations of expenditure but there is no commitment as to where money will be spent.
At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
Where does £5bn come from?At the original poster said the UK Government can pretty much spend money as it wishes. A resent example is the £5bp bung to N Ireland to get DUP backing.
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