Will May Pay or Hope it Fades Away? £55b exit bill...
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sway said:
Because, just as the Isle of Man isn't a part of the EU, but is part of the customs union - NI remaining within the Customs Union hasn't been ruled out...
As everyone involved has said, multiple times - a flexible solution unique to Ireland is required, which will involve concessions from the 'norm' by both negotiating party.
Two things wrong with your argument, IoM does not have a land boarder with any EU country which NI does, IoM is not part of the UK which NI is.As everyone involved has said, multiple times - a flexible solution unique to Ireland is required, which will involve concessions from the 'norm' by both negotiating party.
I know there are differences - hence the need for a 'unique to Ireland' solution.
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, can we really stop talking about MONEY and concentrate on the most IMPORTANT aspect ! Solve the N.I / border issue and brexit can proceed !! At this point in time that is the most important issue to resolve, everything else can be done but until the N.I border issue is resolved everything else that is N.A
Why is it the MOST important aspect ?Re the bill...
The issue I have a hard time with is it's constantly reported that the EU isn't happy with the number we've come up and wants us to come back with a different number, to use the club/restaurant analogy isn't that akin to us saying "we're leaving and what's the bill please" only to be told they'd like to hear what we think is fair and then being unhappy with our made up number.
Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
It's not hard and starts from a position of trust. I'd rather we got a free meal but in reality we did go into the restaurant and order starters so we should pay something... but the restaurant should know what we owe!
The issue I have a hard time with is it's constantly reported that the EU isn't happy with the number we've come up and wants us to come back with a different number, to use the club/restaurant analogy isn't that akin to us saying "we're leaving and what's the bill please" only to be told they'd like to hear what we think is fair and then being unhappy with our made up number.
Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
It's not hard and starts from a position of trust. I'd rather we got a free meal but in reality we did go into the restaurant and order starters so we should pay something... but the restaurant should know what we owe!
MDMetal said:
Re the bill...
Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
That's where you are wrong.Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
This is a political bill. There is no itemisation. Both sides need to achieve something they can sell to their electorate.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sway said:
As you've had explained several times, despite your emotion overriding your ability to rationalise it - it is impossible to resolve the NI border issue fully until the future trading relationship has been defined...
We are not going to be in the single market, we are not going to be in the customs union, we are not going to permit free movement of people. How is the future trade agreement going to solve the Ni problem?in their grubby little empire now its messy divorce and the more spiteful they can be the better as they see it .. so Ireland its citizens and the people of the UK along with EU nationals are now pawns ......
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, can we really stop talking about MONEY and concentrate on the most IMPORTANT aspect ! Solve the N.I / border issue and brexit can proceed !! At this point in time that is the most important issue to resolve, everything else can be done but until the N.I border issue is resolved everything else that is N.A
There is no simple approach to the NI border, a hard border is out of the question although London and Brussels have different approaches.From what I gather the EU want NI to remain in the customs union but all that does is create a border between NI and the UK, that only solves the NI-ROI problem so the UK is against this.
The UK wants a virtual border, using technology to track trade in and out, number plate recognition meaning no truck stops etc and would be a good all round approach but the EU, especially ROI have ruled that out, in a toys out of the pram- I want option A type rejection.
So back to square one.
If we could agree a trade deal for the whole of the UK it would also help the border issue but no, the EU won't discuss things in tandem so here we are with the same s
t dragging on unnecessarily whilst the clock ticks away.Hopefully May grows a pair and goes "right then you cantankerous old b
ds, here's your 50 billion but I want a free trade agreement in return. And the stagnant UK awaiting clarity can then crack on doing business again.mx5nut said:
Robertj21a said:
I'd offer a maximum of, say, £50bn with the proviso that it will drop by £1bn for every week that they fail to move on to discuss trade etc....
Try that negotiating tactic with your salary next time you're offered a job and see how far it gets you 
Surely if you're offered a job you'd KNOW what the salary will be!
PurpleMoonlight said:
MDMetal said:
Re the bill...
Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
That's where you are wrong.Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
This is a political bill. There is no itemisation. Both sides need to achieve something they can sell to their electorate.
The Pension Scheme of European Officials (PESO) is an unfunded scheme - payments are made from current receipts. Over the period of our membership the UK therefore paid for pension entitlements accrued by officials who were working for the CM before our joining. Legally, by precedent, the pensions of retired UK ex-EU employees should therefore be paid by the remaining EU members. It is entirely reasonable we pay nothing after our leaving. Or we can pay up.....
The Brexit negotiations are substantially about money. The sums of money in (£billions) are so eye-wateringly large as to be almost meaningless. Perhaps we should reference the 'cost' of any element of a 'divorce' settlement not just in £bn's but in a way that the layman can easily relate to. My suggestion? Just how much our taxation will have to rise in order to pay for any element of the 'divorce' settlement. Lets us use VAT as an example: the State raises £120bn from VAT, or put simplistically every one % of VAT raises £6bn.
So in the case EU Official's pensions, a figure of £12bn has been suggested so, if we were to pay this as a one off contribution, then we would have to raise VAT for one year by 2% to 22%.
Perhaps those of us PH'ers arguing for anything other than a 'hard' BREXIT might like to consider- show of hands please:
1). Who thinks the UK should make a £12bn contribution towards EU pensions?
2). Keep your hands up if you are prepared to vote to increase VAT to 22% to raise this money?
3). Keep your hands up if you are happy to pay this increased rate of VAT in order to ensure that Nigel Farage gets his € 6000 per month pension. As a MEP between 1999 & 2019, this is entitlement.
4). Keep your hands up if you are happy to pay this increased rate of VAT in order to ensure that Peter Mandelson gets his £31,000pa pension. As a European Commissioner between 2004 & 2008 this is his entitlement.
And come on, admit it, as much as you might claim to love the EU are you prepared to put your own hands in your own pockets.......
powerstroke said:
As its plainly obvious the EU want war with us , the simple fact we were once a key stone
in their grubby little empire now its messy divorce and the more spiteful they can be the better as they see it .. so Ireland its citizens and the people of the UK along with EU nationals are now pawns ......
Except the EU didn't ask for this problem. It was forced on them by the UK.in their grubby little empire now its messy divorce and the more spiteful they can be the better as they see it .. so Ireland its citizens and the people of the UK along with EU nationals are now pawns ......
PurpleMoonlight said:
MDMetal said:
Re the bill...
Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
That's where you are wrong.Surely for them to be unhappy they must have a number that they think is fair that's worked out somehow? If so why not pop it on the table like an itemised bill and we can see if it's fair or they've noted down a few pints we didn't really buy?
This is a political bill. There is no itemisation. Both sides need to achieve something they can sell to their electorate.
Robertj21a said:
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, can we really stop talking about MONEY and concentrate on the most IMPORTANT aspect ! Solve the N.I / border issue and brexit can proceed !! At this point in time that is the most important issue to resolve, everything else can be done but until the N.I border issue is resolved everything else that is N.A
Why is it the MOST important aspect ?Anything like this gives them hope of overturning the referendum.
They'll deny it endlessly but that's the reason.
PurpleMoonlight said:
powerstroke said:
As its plainly obvious the EU want war with us , the simple fact we were once a key stone
in their grubby little empire now its messy divorce and the more spiteful they can be the better as they see it .. so Ireland its citizens and the people of the UK along with EU nationals are now pawns ......
Except the EU didn't ask for this problem. It was forced on them by the UK.in their grubby little empire now its messy divorce and the more spiteful they can be the better as they see it .. so Ireland its citizens and the people of the UK along with EU nationals are now pawns ......
k himself was the last straw.. PurpleMoonlight said:
powerstroke said:
YES they did and telling Cameron to go fk himself was the last straw..
k himself was the last straw.. Oh you poor victim, my heart bleeds for you.
the way the EU behaves is the reason I and many others Voted to Leave ....
PurpleMoonlight said:
lenny007 said:
Mainly because they were intransigent to Cameron's request for reform and didn't actually believe the UK would vote to leave.
You mean we couldn't bully them into giving us what we wanted.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff