Will May Pay or Hope it Fades Away? £55b exit bill...
Discussion
Roboraver said:
Again. please stop using deflection. Please provide a solution to the N.I issue.
Once you have then brexit can proceed, come on there must be a solution for all party's ?
If you can't provide one then what about N.I stay in C.U & S.M ? Another U turn by May that would actually be acceptable by leave and remain teams ? As alternative is....
There is no deflection, and you're so wrapped up in a single aspect of the negotiations you're unable to recognise that... Once you have then brexit can proceed, come on there must be a solution for all party's ?
If you can't provide one then what about N.I stay in C.U & S.M ? Another U turn by May that would actually be acceptable by leave and remain teams ? As alternative is....
It is possible for NI to remain in the CU. That would shift any prospective border to the Irish Channel. There is also the possibility of a 'transparent, yet compliant' border using technology and spot checks of goods, with similar on the Irish Channel.
A hell of a lot depends on the future relationship - that in many ways both defines the requirements, and the level of will for flexibility. It is also not a single party decision - it is not up for individuals or a single nation to 'provide a solution', it is for all involved parties to reach a solution. That's an important difference.
Nothing can be decided in isolation, despite how much you wish it could be.
Mario149 said:
A whole 12%, how will they ever survive?! In actual money terms we cut, as one country, way more per year for austerity last time I checked and we're basically still here and functioning. While the loss of £8.5Bn or so will be annoying to the EU, I'm sure they'll find some way to split it or cut back spending a little between the twenty seven of them
Out of interest why do they the insist on a quite large payment for leaving? p1stonhead said:
Mrr T said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sway said:
As you've had explained several times, despite your emotion overriding your ability to rationalise it - it is impossible to resolve the NI border issue fully until the future trading relationship has been defined...
We are not going to be in the single market, we are not going to be in the customs union, we are not going to permit free movement of people. How is the future trade agreement going to solve the Ni problem?
Korean peninsula hard?
North American hard?
Turkey/EU hard?
Note - Turkey is in the Customs Union, whilst holding FTAs that the EU does not, and the EU has FTAs in force that Turkey does not.
That would seem to imply that it's not a 'cake and eat it' scenario at all to have a transparent border whilst retaining both control of freedom of movement of people, and permitting us full control of the FTAs we wish to hold...
Eddie Strohacker said:
Mostly from avoiding PM's points & repeating the leave mantra when pressed.
What points have I missed? Certainly not intentional, as some of your fellow remain proponents should agree. I'm also unaware of repeating any form of mantra, but again, open to enlightenment.
Eddie Strohacker said:
Palpable sense of defensiveness emerging in leaver rhetoric. Gone from amazing to it's happening. Sense of error can't be easily reconciled with ego.
You are a Rus-Bot* and I claim my £5. - Computerised Russian Government Troll programmed to spread confusion throughout the political systems of the decadent capitalist West!
Eddie Strohacker said:
Sway said:
Thanks for informing me of my reason to vote.
dro
said:
said: you LOST, we are leaving the EU, get over it.
Palpable sense of defensiveness emerging in leaver rhetoric. Gone from amazing to it's happening. Sense of error can't be easily reconciled with ego.alfaspecial said:
My suggestion? Just how much our taxation will have to rise in order to pay for any element of the 'divorce' settlement. Lets us use VAT as an example: the State raises £120bn from VAT, or put simplistically every one % of VAT raises £6bn.
No the state raises £120bn from VAT then takes a small deduction to cover admin costs and gives all the rest to the EU as part of it's contribution ;-)alfaspecial said:
So in the case EU Official's pensions, a figure of £12bn has been suggested so, if we were to pay this as a one off contribution, then we would have to raise VAT for one year by 2% to 22%.
Err no having left we would not be giving any of the vat contribution to the EU so if we were to give £12bn to cover EU pensions we would have as a result £108bn (less admin costs) to fund lets say the NHS maybe 
alfaspecial said:
Perhaps those of us PH'ers arguing for anything other than a 'hard' BREXIT might like to consider- show of hands please:
1). Who thinks the UK should make a £12bn contribution towards EU pensions?
I think that hoping for anything other than just leave is pretty pointless but you never know - the EU structure of funding gold plated pensions from existing contributions is why eventually it's going to be a bloody nightmare cost wise and one of the reasons I voted leave1). Who thinks the UK should make a £12bn contribution towards EU pensions?
Anyway in a nutshell I don't think you'll get anyone who is anti brexit or pro soft brexit to stick a hand up
Roboraver said:
Again. please stop using deflection. Please provide a solution to the N.I issue.
Once you have then brexit can proceed, come on there must be a solution for all party's ?
If you can't provide one then what about N.I stay in C.U & S.M ? Another U turn by May that would actually be acceptable by leave and remain teams ? As alternative is....
Ireland leaves the EU.Once you have then brexit can proceed, come on there must be a solution for all party's ?
If you can't provide one then what about N.I stay in C.U & S.M ? Another U turn by May that would actually be acceptable by leave and remain teams ? As alternative is....
Its going to be interesting to see how Ireland's GDP changes when the UK leaves the EU, because all the large corporate entities that operate in the UK wont be able to book their sales via an EU tax haven like Ireland and Luxembourg, they will have to book that via the UK (or a UK approved tax haven). With the UK being a large consumer based economy that going to be a significant tax loss to Ireland.
Ireland would be wise to ensure they don't also lose their biggest market access at the same time, just losing UK tax receipts is going to hurt enough. In their own interests they should be pushing for a good trade deal that removes any obstacles.
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, can we really stop talking about MONEY and concentrate on the most IMPORTANT aspect ! Solve the N.I / border issue and brexit can proceed !! At this point in time that is the most important issue to resolve, everything else can be done but until the N.I border issue is resolved everything else that is N.A
Clearly for you it is the most important point - for myself it's not.Just so you know at least one person holds a different opinion and there may be others - I don't speak for anyone else
dandarez said:
mx5nut said:
Robertj21a said:
I'd offer a maximum of, say, £50bn with the proviso that it will drop by £1bn for every week that they fail to move on to discuss trade etc....
Try that negotiating tactic with your salary next time you're offered a job and see how far it gets you 
Surely if you're offered a job you'd KNOW what the salary will be!
I'm negotiating my salary - I've asked for £50bn but for every week they delay accepting my very generous terms it will drop by a £1bn
So I agree with nutjobmx5 - it probably wouldn't work
Robertj21a said:
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, can we really stop talking about MONEY and concentrate on the most IMPORTANT aspect ! Solve the N.I / border issue and brexit can proceed !! At this point in time that is the most important issue to resolve, everything else can be done but until the N.I border issue is resolved everything else that is N.A
Why is it the MOST important aspect ?p1stonhead said:
Mrr T said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sway said:
As you've had explained several times, despite your emotion overriding your ability to rationalise it - it is impossible to resolve the NI border issue fully until the future trading relationship has been defined...
We are not going to be in the single market, we are not going to be in the customs union, we are not going to permit free movement of people. How is the future trade agreement going to solve the Ni problem?B'stard Child said:
alfaspecial said:
My suggestion? Just how much our taxation will have to rise in order to pay for any element of the 'divorce' settlement. Lets us use VAT as an example: the State raises £120bn from VAT, or put simplistically every one % of VAT raises £6bn.
No the state raises £120bn from VAT then takes a small deduction to cover admin costs and gives all the rest to the EU as part of it's contribution ;-)UK administers the import duty from non EU countries, deducts approx 25% for admin costs then passes on the rest to the EU.
In 2016 the UK retained 0.79 Billion Euro in admin costs and paid the EU 3.93 Billion Euro from the import duties levied.
The amount of VAT based payments to the EU in 2016 was 3.1 Billion Euro
B'stard Child said:
dandarez said:
mx5nut said:
Robertj21a said:
I'd offer a maximum of, say, £50bn with the proviso that it will drop by £1bn for every week that they fail to move on to discuss trade etc....
Try that negotiating tactic with your salary next time you're offered a job and see how far it gets you Surely if you're offered a job you'd KNOW what the salary will be!
I'm negotiating my salary - I've asked for £50bn but for every week they delay accepting my very generous terms it will drop by a £1bn
So I agree with nutjobmx5 - it probably wouldn't work
My offer of a maximum of £50bn was to pay this supposed 'invoice' from the EU - then reducing by £1bn per week. If it's really that difficult to understand then I am beginning to see why so many struggle with basic economics.
jsf said:
B'stard Child said:
alfaspecial said:
My suggestion? Just how much our taxation will have to rise in order to pay for any element of the 'divorce' settlement. Lets us use VAT as an example: the State raises £120bn from VAT, or put simplistically every one % of VAT raises £6bn.
No the state raises £120bn from VAT then takes a small deduction to cover admin costs and gives all the rest to the EU as part of it's contribution ;-)UK administers the import duty from non EU countries, deducts approx 25% for admin costs then passes on the rest to the EU.
In 2016 the UK retained 0.79 Billion Euro in admin costs and paid the EU 3.93 Billion Euro from the import duties levied.
The amount of VAT based payments to the EU in 2016 was 3.1 Billion Euro
So how does the Government fund the 1.25%
Robertj21a said:
B'stard Child said:
dandarez said:
mx5nut said:
Robertj21a said:
I'd offer a maximum of, say, £50bn with the proviso that it will drop by £1bn for every week that they fail to move on to discuss trade etc....
Try that negotiating tactic with your salary next time you're offered a job and see how far it gets you Surely if you're offered a job you'd KNOW what the salary will be!
I'm negotiating my salary - I've asked for £50bn but for every week they delay accepting my very generous terms it will drop by a £1bn
So I agree with nutjobmx5 - it probably wouldn't work
My offer of a maximum of £50bn was to pay this supposed 'invoice' from the EU - then reducing by £1bn per week. If it's really that difficult to understand then I am beginning to see why so many struggle with basic economics.
Probably......
Eddie Strohacker said:
And they would agree to that because?
I didn't say that they would agree to it.In the absence of anything else being put forward [not heard what your suggestion is.....] I just thought it was something marginally amusing that we could have sufficient cheek to try out on the EU. They want more money out of us, so we offer a slightly higher figure and then reduce it as they flounder around being silly.
What is your suggestion ?
Robertj21a said:
I didn't say that they would agree to it.
In the absence of anything else being put forward [not heard what your suggestion is.....] I just thought it was something marginally amusing that we could have sufficient cheek to try out on the EU. They want more money out of us, so we offer a slightly higher figure and then reduce it as they flounder around being silly.
What is your suggestion ?
My suggestion is you haven't read the thread. Your suggestion is like walking into a Porsche dealer, slapping 10k down & demanding a GT3RS & telling the sales man you'll trouser £100 for every minute he doesn't hand over the keys.In the absence of anything else being put forward [not heard what your suggestion is.....] I just thought it was something marginally amusing that we could have sufficient cheek to try out on the EU. They want more money out of us, so we offer a slightly higher figure and then reduce it as they flounder around being silly.
What is your suggestion ?
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