Will May Pay or Hope it Fades Away? £55b exit bill...

[Robertj21a]

Coolbanana said:

Robertj21a said:

...

Do you honestly feel that everyone considers the economy over ALL other issues ?

So...your vote was entirely personal in the sense that so long as you believed you would be alright, other Britons could go hungry or cold? Or just Britons in your circle were ok? Some Britons were expendable?

Did you never give a thought for possible economic negatives at all and how that might affect others? Given a vote for Leave was a far riskier vote than a vote to Remain owing to the fact that the economy was improving prior to the vote whereas a Leave vote was to court an uncertain future - possibly negative for a period - then surely it was reckless or just plain selfish to discount how an economic downturn would affect those who barely get by as it is? Or to think about it and brush it aside as least important based only upon your own personal circumstances?

I can, to a degree, understand a Leave Voter voting because they were convinced the economy wouldn't take a serious hit or that it would not be bad enough to cause much harm but a Leave Voter who considers the economy as less important an issue and selfishly disregards his or her fellow Britons as a result? Hmm.

Or is it all for the Greater Good in the Future? Fine for folks we have never met to suffer so long as we leave the EU?

Good heavens, there's more than one of you ! - I'm genuinely surprised that it's coolbanana as there's been a good deal of common sense posted in the past..........

To answer your various questions is actually very simple, but it seems that others also don't understand. I'll try once more:-

I never voted for, or wanted to be in the EU - clear ???. (I would have never wanted to be in any other similar organisation either - clear ???)

I was given the opportunity to vote on a simple In/Out basis. Like 52% of the population I voted Out.

I know many people who, like me, simply have no wish to be in the EU. Naturally, I don't know their individual reasons but, as I don't live in London/SE, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they included the usual issues highlighted on here over very many months - [?? Ever greater union ?? Immigration ?? Merkel ?? Juncker ?? 'Sovereignty' ?? Greece/Italy/Spain/Turkey etc etc ??] - as I say, I really don't know, just guessing.

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Robertj21a said:

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

Still find this incredibly narrow viewpoint unconvincing. The economy is the basis for everything. We earn, we live. That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. Good for you having such high minded ideals, shame for everyone else who has to pay for it.

[Sway]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

Still find this incredibly narrow viewpoint unconvincing. The economy is the basis for everything. We earn, we live. That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. Good for you having such high minded ideals, shame for everyone else who has to pay for it.

How many Leave towns have asked for exemptions? I'm not aware of any (although I'm aware of a specific subgroup relying on imported material lobbying for FTA)...

[alfie2244]

Eddie Strohacker said:

That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. .

Making stuff up again eddie?

eta beaten to it ^^

[Robertj21a]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

Still find this incredibly narrow viewpoint unconvincing. The economy is the basis for everything. We earn, we live. That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. Good for you having such high minded ideals, shame for everyone else who has to pay for it.

I suppose the other issue I didn't touch on is timescales. You say 'shame on everyone else who has to pay for it' - why make that assumption when nobody knows the terms of our Brexit and, even if you feel that they are 'terrible', do you accept that it may well change over a certain period of time ?. Have you ignored the fact that Brexit might turn out to be very good for the UK as a whole ?

If you feel that we are all going to have 'to pay for it', are you thinking of, say, 5 years, 10 years. 20 years or forever ?

[PRTVR]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

Still find this incredibly narrow viewpoint unconvincing. The economy is the basis for everything. We earn, we live. That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. Good for you having such high minded ideals, shame for everyone else who has to pay for it.

where were you when the rest of the country was economically destroyed, are you saying that there are businesses that can only exist if they are massively subsidised by the tax payer in the form of payments to the EU, perhaps like ship building, steel, and manufacturing they should go to the wall in our capitalist society.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Robertj21a said:

I suppose the other issue I didn't touch on is timescales. You say 'shame on everyone else who has to pay for it' - why make that assumption when nobody knows the terms of our Brexit and, even if you feel that they are 'terrible', do you accept that it may well change over a certain period of time ?. Have you ignored the fact that Brexit might turn out to be very good for the UK as a whole ?

If you feel that we are all going to have 'to pay for it', are you thinking of, say, 5 years, 10 years. 20 years or forever ?

I think you'll have control over the borders & full sovereignty which should warn the heart when watching Parliament on the news over the timescales you mention. Everything else will be stuffed imo, starting with 3bn for Brexit preparations announced yesterday. XXbn for the bill. XXbn for the trade negotiations, XXbn for all the new infrastructure & agencies required. XXbn for all the support for the industries likely to be pitched into decline and on & on it goes.

[Eddie Strohacker]

PRTVR said:

where were you when the rest of the country was economically destroyed,

What?

[JagLover]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm really surprised that so many people seem to think that the economy was everyone's top priority. That can only come from people who work in Finance and assume that the rest of the country thinks the same way.........We don't !. It rather highlights why those voting to Remain were so amazed at the 52% vote - whereas I had expected the Leave vote to be much higher. It just goes to show what a wide variation there is across the UK.

Still find this incredibly narrow viewpoint unconvincing. The economy is the basis for everything. We earn, we live. That's literally how it works & the clamour for special exemptions from leave town after leave town is proof of that. Good for you having such high minded ideals, shame for everyone else who has to pay for it.

It is a common belief that the development of our economy was partially based upon liberal democracy. It is a very short sighted view therefore to believe that our absorption into an anti-democratic imperialistic exercise would have no negative impact on the economy in the longer term.

So I would say in reply that the economy is very important, but many have a different time horizon to five years or so.

Furthermore there is far more to standards of living than headline rates of GDP growth.

[PurpleMoonlight]

JagLover said:

It is a common belief that the development of our economy was partially based upon liberal democracy. It is a very short sighted view therefore to believe that our absorption into an anti-democratic imperialistic exercise would have no negative impact on the economy in the longer term.

What do you think the MEP's do in this anti-democratic imperialistic exercise?

[Robertj21a]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

I suppose the other issue I didn't touch on is timescales. You say 'shame on everyone else who has to pay for it' - why make that assumption when nobody knows the terms of our Brexit and, even if you feel that they are 'terrible', do you accept that it may well change over a certain period of time ?. Have you ignored the fact that Brexit might turn out to be very good for the UK as a whole ?

If you feel that we are all going to have 'to pay for it', are you thinking of, say, 5 years, 10 years. 20 years or forever ?

I think you'll have control over the borders & full sovereignty which should warn the heart when watching Parliament on the news over the timescales you mention. Everything else will be stuffed imo, starting with 3bn for Brexit preparations announced yesterday. XXbn for the bill. XXbn for the trade negotiations, XXbn for all the new infrastructure & agencies required. XXbn for all the support for the industries likely to be pitched into decline and on & on it goes.

So, in simple terms, your belief is that the UK will 'have to pay for it' - forever ?

[Eddie Strohacker]

Robertj21a said:

So, in simple terms, your belief is that the UK will 'have to pay for it' - forever ?

Did I say forever? I believe the price isn't worth paying on many levels. Cost is just one.

[Robertj21a]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Robertj21a said:

So, in simple terms, your belief is that the UK will 'have to pay for it' - forever ?

Did I say forever? I believe the price isn't worth paying on many levels. Cost is just one.

You mentioned ......'everything else will be stuffed' ...... and ........'pitched into decline and on and on it goes'. That doesn't suggest any timescale other than a negative viewpoint for ever more. You give no recognition whatsoever that the UK could thrive outside the EU, even if it takes 10-20 years.

[Eddie Strohacker]

Running with that then, you think a ten to twenty year decline an acceptable trade off to achieve 'sovereignty' & border control?

[Mrr T]

JagLover said:

It is a common belief that the development of our economy was partially based upon liberal democracy. It is a very short sighted view therefore to believe that our absorption into an anti-democratic imperialistic exercise would have no negative impact on the economy in the longer term.

So I would say in reply that the economy is very important, but many have a different time horizon to five years or so.

Furthermore there is far more to standards of living than headline rates of GDP growth.

Whist I had always been concerned about a lack of democracy in the EU the referendum made me reconsider the issue. When I did I had to conclude that whist the EU may not be democratic it was difficult to complain since I already lived in one of the least democratic countries in Europe.

With about 400 seats so safe they will never change hands. The fact is less than 25% (in a close election 7%) of voters will decide the government. With a second chamber made up of those who gained favour with a king several hundred years ago, and a majority who’s only qualification is years of sucking at the public teat. Where is takes 7% more voters of one party to elect an MP than the other (thanks TM for losing the boundary review).

Maybe we should have sorted out the UK.

[PRTVR]

Eddie Strohacker said:

PRTVR said:

where were you when the rest of the country was economically destroyed,

What?

Do you what a list of the things we use to make but now do not ? along with the effects on the areas concerned.

[Oakey]

Not sure why you're concerned about the economy, the 'young and educated' who supposedly know better than those thick old leave voters are hell bent on voting Jeremy Corbyn and his rag tag band of muppets into power, that's bound to do wonders for the economy

[Eddie Strohacker]

PRTVR said:

Do you what a list of the things we use to make but now do not ?

What???

[PRTVR]

Oakey said:

Not sure why you're concerned about the economy, the 'young and educated' who supposedly know better than those thick old leave voters are hell bent on voting Jeremy Corbyn and his rag tag band of muppets into power, that's bound to do wonders for the economy

So true.

[Robertj21a]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Running with that then, you think a ten to twenty year decline an acceptable trade off to achieve 'sovereignty' & border control?

Not sure why you focus on 'sovereignty' and border control ? - I've never mentioned either as my reasons for wanting to leave.

Personally, I look to the long term. If the UK will be more prosperous outside the EU in the longer term then that suits me (and many others) just fine - 10 years is fine, 20 years is a bit of a pain but still worth it for the next generations.