Term-time holiday dad loses court battle

[nadger]

NWTony said:

nadger said:

NWTony said:

zarjaz1991 said:

sealtt said:

Leave it to school/teacher's discretion. There are some situations in term where a few days off will make no difference to a particular student, some where it will. Let the teacher make the judgement call and then back up that judgement call with the LAW.

Wait....you mean.....trust people who have professional qualifications and experience in the field, and have personal knowledge of the situation? Trust them to make a sensible decision that's in everybody's best interests?

I'm sorry, we don't do that sort of thing in this country any more.

Because that would lead to inequality and bias? Because it would me OK for Jemima to have a week off to visit a charming Tuscan villa but Krystal-chardonnay wouldn't get to go to Bendiorm. Everyone is dead set against privilege until it benefits them.

So you believe schools and teachers have an innate bias against the less privileged then I guess?

I'd imagine they would do yes, human nature being what it is.

Equally there could be bias in favour of families known to the teacher / school.

So how would you overcome that issue then?

[Kermit power]

sealtt said:

Kermit power said:

With the possible exception of declaring a different holiday for all pupils so that all parents can take their kids away on cheaper holidays, in what circumstance can you see letting parents take kids out of school during term time being in the best interests of the other kids in their class?

The point is not for it to be to the benefit of other students, the point is for it to benefit the student in question without hindering the other students.

If that will not happen and it will hinder either the student in question or the other students, in the teacher's opinion, then the holiday should not be granted.

If you take that view, then every parent who wants to take their kids out will be of the belief that their little cherub can take time out without it causing a problem, and teachers will end up being dragged into endless debates about it and being pressured because of the precedent set for other parents.

In the meantime, there is always going to be some impact, as the teachers still need to make sure the kids are up to speed when they get back, which is a right pain if it happens on a regular basis.

[ClaphamGT3]

I am a governor of two inner city primaries. Both have issues making targets for attendance. Key issues are;

- chaotic households that cannot reliably/regularly get children to school in time for registration
- religious holidays and festivals not falling within school holidays
- extended trips to visit relations overseas (can be for many months)
- absence to avoid lessons that the parents do not want their children to attend

[CaptainSlow]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I am a governor of two inner city primaries. Both have issues making targets for attendance. Key issues are;

- chaotic households that cannot reliably/regularly get children to school in time for registration
- religious holidays and festivals not falling within school holidays
- extended trips to visit relations overseas (can be for many months)
- absence to avoid lessons that the parents do not want their children to attend

Does this impact the general level of education attainment within the school?

[ClaphamGT3]

CaptainSlow said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

I am a governor of two inner city primaries. Both have issues making targets for attendance. Key issues are;

- chaotic households that cannot reliably/regularly get children to school in time for registration
- religious holidays and festivals not falling within school holidays
- extended trips to visit relations overseas (can be for many months)
- absence to avoid lessons that the parents do not want their children to attend

Does this impact the general level of education attainment within the school?

Definitely and, in one, it is probably one of the biggest factors in an OfSTED Good rather than Outstanding; the amount of time and resource that the issue consumes is very significant.

[Kermit power]

I remember our kids' Infant School getting an Outstanding in every single category of their inspection report a few years ago except for attendance, where they only got a Good.

The headmistress went absolutely mental in her letter to the parents about who was and wasn't doing their bit for their children's education!

[Steve Campbell]

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit. The result if you take your child out of school is often a fine. Pay it and move on. In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2. The only reason for this was financial as we wanted to introduce him to skiing which my wife and I have done for years. Wouldn't dream of taking him out in secondary.

The Dad in this case took on the establishment and lost. Not quite sure what his overall thought was...but it backfired spectacularly. Should have payed his dues and moved on.

[Kermit power]

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit... In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2.

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

[CaptainSlow]

Kermit power said:

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit... In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2.

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

+1 Well put.

[Murph7355]

Kermit power said:

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

Just put all kids who are out during term without permission into a sweeper class from that point forth. If parents think there's minimal impact, they know the outcome and will be fine with it

[nadger]

Kermit power said:

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The average teacher is entitled 2.5 hrs away from teaching (planning, preparation and assessment time). That generally equates to three free periods a week. The rest of the time they'll be teaching.

[surveyor]

There are some 'motivated' posters on here who I am pretty convinced do not have kids. I'll be interested in what they say when they do.

I think all parents get that certain years of education are important,

I get that primary schools are rated by sats and ofsted, but frankly don't give a fk. Any important area is certainly taught more than once and then gets repeated at secondary school, to allow for those taught badly in crap schools...

We had the noticeable exception of being refused permission over ten years ago, merely as our kid would miss his last sat test. We managed to book an extra flight with his grandparents. The school agreed to do the rest first thing and he was then transferred 200 miles for the flight... all happy.

[Efbe]

nadger said:

Kermit power said:

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The average teacher is entitled 2.5 hrs away from teaching (planning, preparation and assessment time). That generally equates to three free periods a week. The rest of the time they'll be teaching.

Though we both know most teachers work far more than this outside of work time.

I do like the idea of a central repository of data/plans/worksheets/resource, though knowing our government they would turn teaching into a robotic tick-box task. However if the children's education is what we are concerned with, this should be offered to parents as well for those that want to help at home more.

[Kermit power]

Kermit power said:

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

If the teachers were bringing the absentee pupils back up to speed in their own time, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but they're not. They have to bring them up to speed in class, which impacts on the other pupils in the class.

[Kermit power]

Efbe said:

Though we both know most teachers work far more than this outside of work time.

I do like the idea of a central repository of data/plans/worksheets/resource, though knowing our government they would turn teaching into a robotic tick-box task. However if the children's education is what we are concerned with, this should be offered to parents as well for those that want to help at home more.

I suspect this pretty much already happens, doesn't it?

I certainly know pretty much exactly what worksheets and homework topics my youngest (year 4) is going to bring home from school as it's exactly what his older siblings (now years 6 & 9) had in years 3-6 whilst at junior school. They've all had different teachers though, so this isn't just a case of the same teacher using the same materials each year.

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit... In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2.

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

Maybe he was helping the other thick kids catch up with his bright kid, or the kids of the 'selfish fkers' who don't read with their kids every day.......

[Steve Campbell]

wsurfa said:

Kermit power said:

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit... In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2.

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

Maybe he was helping the other thick kids catch up with his bright kid, or the kids of the 'selfish fkers' who don't read with their kids every day.......

As noted above, the impact of removing my kid from school for 1 week per year was precisely zero for both my kid and the rest of the class. He was top of his class in practically every subject, won the academic prize and to add to this was the best sportsman in his year (he is also well liked with lots of friends and not an annoying t**t like this makes him sound :-)). Most of his time in core lessons like maths & English he was ahead of the class doing extended work given by the teacher anyway. He passed the local 11+ with flying colours (without us sending him to a tutor) and is doing very well at a local grammar school. In addition, he now has a passion for skiing, has enjoyed 8 years experiencing the beauty of the mountains & id do it all the same next time.

Taking your children out of school isn't for everyone I admit, as some would struggle and it may be detrimental to them and potentially others (I've yet to see any evidence of this in Key Stage 1 & 2).....also my child actually had a better overall attendance record than many in his class as he was hardly ever ill.

So kermit power, it's important to understand the context and background before you launch into a typical keyboard warrior tirade.

[ClaphamGT3]

Steve Campbell said:

wsurfa said:

Kermit power said:

Steve Campbell said:

Interesting catching up on this thread. I'm all for the rules.....but I also believe parents have the right to parent as they see fit... In primary school, I took my son out of school for holidays every year in Key Stage 1, about half of Key stage 2.

How exactly do you reconcile your right to "parent as you see fit" by buggering off skiing in term time with the right of others to parent as they see fit by having their kids educated by a teacher who isn't having to slow down and take time out to bring the kids of selfish fkers up to speed when they get back from swanning around in the Alps whilst everyone else's kids have been in school learning?

Maybe he was helping the other thick kids catch up with his bright kid, or the kids of the 'selfish fkers' who don't read with their kids every day.......

As noted above, the impact of removing my kid from school for 1 week per year was precisely zero for both my kid and the rest of the class. He was top of his class in practically every subject, won the academic prize and to add to this was the best sportsman in his year (he is also well liked with lots of friends and not an annoying t**t like this makes him sound :-)). Most of his time in core lessons like maths & English he was ahead of the class doing extended work given by the teacher anyway. He passed the local 11+ with flying colours (without us sending him to a tutor) and is doing very well at a local grammar school. In addition, he now has a passion for skiing, has enjoyed 8 years experiencing the beauty of the mountains & id do it all the same next time.

Taking your children out of school isn't for everyone I admit, as some would struggle and it may be detrimental to them and potentially others (I've yet to see any evidence of this in Key Stage 1 & 2).....also my child actually had a better overall attendance record than many in his class as he was hardly ever ill.

So kermit power, it's important to understand the context and background before you launch into a typical keyboard warrior tirade.

But why did you need to take him out of school?

I have achieved very much the same with my daughters without them ever missing school to do so

[xjay1337]

Well the way this thread is going, seems like boarding school is the only way to guarantee attendance.
Drop your kids off and you can't see them until end of term.

[Ari]

ClaphamGT3 said:

But why did you need to take him out of school?

I have achieved very much the same with my daughters without them ever missing school to do so

So he could save himself a few quid and fk everyone else, the rules don't apply to him and his oh so special child, he's already said that.

What selfish parents like this never get is the concept that if every parent did the same it would be utter chaos.

Fortunately, most understand and don't, so he gets away with it.