United passenger forcibly removed from overbooked flight..

[fido]

Halb said:

2 mill is my guestimate, going off the USA and fairness.

I think in a normal case maybe but this involved police as well - UA would have not wanted this to go to court and the doctors lawyer would have milked this for all it's worth - also think it might have hit the 8 figure mark. Guess we'll never know ..

[Disastrous]

Hoofy said:

I don't think it's as clear cut as this. Say there are two passengers happy to take the money and only one seat required, it will be almost like a reverse bidding war until one person decides it isn't worth the money whilst the other person will happily miss a flight for $500.

Surely they'd just do it the same way they currently do but with the option of increasing their offer until someone takes it (up to the new maximum).

It's not as if a plane full of people will keep silent and then suddenly at $10k a forest of hands would shoot up. Someone will be happy to go at $3k or $4K or whatever, long before they reach the top.

[Countdown]

surveyor said:

Then you have this one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/ba-offl...

Now I don't really see the issue with them kicking off a disruptive passenger. However look at the cost here. After landing at Lajes, due to crew hours the plane had to turn around and return to London. Fair enough BA won that argument, but at the cost of disruption to how many passengers not to mention the financial cost. All because the passenger wanted to sit in a empty seat. Now I agree that they can't just allow this - everyone would do it - but there must have been a different way to play this. Let him have the seat, but not the service. Work out a deal. Get him arrested at the other end - sue him whatever - but drop him off and return to the departure airport? Come on....

It all comes down to Airlines treating people like cattle, and training their staff to never deviate, never use common sense.

I read that one. It seemed to me that the guy wanted a freebie upgrade and was chancing his arm. But yes, BA should have chosen a more efficient way of resolving the matter. A taser maybe?

[TheGuru]

fido said:

I think in a normal case maybe but this involved police as well - UA would have not wanted this to go to court and the doctors lawyer would have milked this for all it's worth - also think it might have hit the 8 figure mark. Guess we'll never know ..

The reality is both didn't want this to go to court, if it had Dao would get less than the settlement and United suffer the unneeded and prolonged publicity.

All sources I've read indicate that settlements in the USA are normally 3-4x the cost of all incurred and future medical expenses. If Dao's injuries costs him $100k the he'd get $3-400k. Given the publicity I'd say high 6 figures, at most $1-2m. I think there are also limits on punitive damages in some states too.

[Shakermaker]

Countdown said:

surveyor said:

Then you have this one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/26/ba-offl...

Now I don't really see the issue with them kicking off a disruptive passenger. However look at the cost here. After landing at Lajes, due to crew hours the plane had to turn around and return to London. Fair enough BA won that argument, but at the cost of disruption to how many passengers not to mention the financial cost. All because the passenger wanted to sit in a empty seat. Now I agree that they can't just allow this - everyone would do it - but there must have been a different way to play this. Let him have the seat, but not the service. Work out a deal. Get him arrested at the other end - sue him whatever - but drop him off and return to the departure airport? Come on....

It all comes down to Airlines treating people like cattle, and training their staff to never deviate, never use common sense.

I read that one. It seemed to me that the guy wanted a freebie upgrade and was chancing his arm. But yes, BA should have chosen a more efficient way of resolving the matter. A taser maybe?

A couple of my former colleagues were talking about this on Facebook the other day. The guy was already being a dick when he was at Gatwick but was allowed on, perhaps thinking that he would be less of a dick when he was on board. But then, he was more of a dick.

And now that the story is in the news, perhaps they won't have so many people being dicks on board and trying to "win" because they then know they might get left in Portugal under arrest and have to face charges, rather than just sitting down and getting on with it when told they can't have what they want?

[FourWheelDrift]

cb31 said:

Hoofy said:

I don't think it's as clear cut as this. Say there are two passengers happy to take the money and only one seat required, it will be almost like a reverse bidding war until one person decides it isn't worth the money whilst the other person will happily miss a flight for $500.

Like their existing offer it won't be worth anything like as much in the real world. At first I struggled to believe not one person would leave the flight for $800 or whatever they were offering. After reading more it turned out that it was in $50 vouchers to be used on United flights with a maximum of 1 per flight. So basically $50 off per flight and you probably had to pay full fare to get it rather than through a discounter. No wonder nobody was interested.

Same as before

Telegraph said:

Asked by The Telegraph, United said that the $10,000 would not be in cash.

"For now, it will be Travel Certificates," the company told The Telegraph in an email.

So if it's the same routine it would take 200 flights ($50 voucher per flight) and if they have to be used up in a 12 month period the only people who could use it are business commuters who know they will be flying every week day. for those only flying once a month or few times a year it's a nothing offer no different to the $800 original.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/04/27/uni...

[herewego]

I came across this just once. They asked over the PA and by directly asking if anyone would like the flight cost returned and a free seat on the next flight. A student took the offer straight away. The next flight was only an hour or two later.

[Digga]

It all comes back to the fact that, the more of these stories that surface, the more the impression that large sections of the air industry treat their passengers worse than cattle and regard them as a nuisance first, items to be transported second and as customers possibly not even as a third priority.

[Burwood]

Digga said:

It all comes back to the fact that, the more of these stories that surface, the more the impression that large sections of the air industry treat their passengers worse than cattle and regard them as a nuisance first, items to be transported second and as customers possibly not even as a third priority.

That is my impression and experience. Of course only manifesting itself when there is some sort of issue. Of course the vast majority of airline staff I've encountered have been great.

I was on the maiden Emirates A380 out of Gatwick. The check in line was huge and not moving. It got to 1 hour before departure and they checked in everyone but it was clear there was an issue. Once checked in they announced 'sorry the plane is broken' you are all staying in a hotel until the following day! I checked my phone and there was an Emirates flight out of Heathrow in 3 hours-i wanted it! But Emirates refused to return my checked case due to 'security' which is a fabrication. What they wanted to do is ensure the replacement plane had a full load . They effectively held me to ransom and ruined my trip. It turns out they knew the plane was down 8 hours prior.

[Digga]

Burwood said:

Digga said:

It all comes back to the fact that, the more of these stories that surface, the more the impression that large sections of the air industry treat their passengers worse than cattle and regard them as a nuisance first, items to be transported second and as customers possibly not even as a third priority.

That is my impression and experience. Of course only manifesting itself when there is some sort of issue. Of course the vast majority of airline staff I've encountered have been great.

I was on the maiden Emirates A380 out of Gatwick. The check in line was huge and not moving. It got to 1 hour before departure and they checked in everyone but it was clear there was an issue. Once checked in they announced 'sorry the plane is broken' you are all staying in a hotel until the following day! I checked my phone and there was an Emirates flight out of Heathrow in 3 hours-i wanted it! But Emirates refused to return my checked case due to 'security' which is a fabrication. What they wanted to do is ensure the replacement plane had a full load . They effectively held me to ransom and ruined my trip. It turns out they knew the plane was down 8 hours prior.

I had a st experience last year. I was on a business trip, on my way home from Shanghai, urgently, because Mrs Digga had told me our dog was suddenly taken very ill (only 8 but had cancer and was PTS two days later) and I was desperate to get back.

I'd arrived in Shanghai the evening before from Wenzou and, minutes before I was about to go to sleep, got a text saying my Swiss Air flight was cancelled. I called Swiss Air helpline and they helpful guy ran through two alternatives; one via Copenhagen SAS (IIRC) and another on Lufthansa via Frankfurt. I opted for the former, as it arrived sooner - my only criteria.

The next morning, I got to the airport to find the Copenhagen flight had also been cancelled. The airport check in staff appeared to be utterly clueless, or perhaps unsupported an it was only because I'd got the LH flight details written down that they then realised to re-route me through Frankfurt. And still it took them nearly 45 minutes to check me in.

In summary, I would rather never have to fly again. I'm not the least bit nervous about flying itself, it's the whole dreary airport/airline experience that sucks any enjoyment out of the journey (and then some from the trip too) every time.

[Burwood]

Digga said:

Burwood said:

Digga said:

It all comes back to the fact that, the more of these stories that surface, the more the impression that large sections of the air industry treat their passengers worse than cattle and regard them as a nuisance first, items to be transported second and as customers possibly not even as a third priority.

That is my impression and experience. Of course only manifesting itself when there is some sort of issue. Of course the vast majority of airline staff I've encountered have been great.

I was on the maiden Emirates A380 out of Gatwick. The check in line was huge and not moving. It got to 1 hour before departure and they checked in everyone but it was clear there was an issue. Once checked in they announced 'sorry the plane is broken' you are all staying in a hotel until the following day! I checked my phone and there was an Emirates flight out of Heathrow in 3 hours-i wanted it! But Emirates refused to return my checked case due to 'security' which is a fabrication. What they wanted to do is ensure the replacement plane had a full load . They effectively held me to ransom and ruined my trip. It turns out they knew the plane was down 8 hours prior.

I had a st experience last year. I was on a business trip, on my way home from Shanghai, urgently, because Mrs Digga had told me our dog was suddenly taken very ill (only 8 but had cancer and was PTS two days later) and I was desperate to get back.

I'd arrived in Shanghai the evening before from Wenzou and, minutes before I was about to go to sleep, got a text saying my Swiss Air flight was cancelled. I called Swiss Air helpline and they helpful guy ran through two alternatives; one via Copenhagen SAS (IIRC) and another on Lufthansa via Frankfurt. I opted for the former, as it arrived sooner - my only criteria.

The next morning, I got to the airport to find the Copenhagen flight had also been cancelled. The airport check in staff appeared to be utterly clueless, or perhaps unsupported an it was only because I'd got the LH flight details written down that they then realised to re-route me through Frankfurt. And still it took them nearly 45 minutes to check me in.

In summary, I would rather never have to fly again. I'm not the least bit nervous about flying itself, it's the whole dreary airport/airline experience that sucks any enjoyment out of the journey (and then some from the trip too) every time.

My above flight was onto Shanghai too. The trip was a wash due to their deceit.They then had the cheek to deny the 600 euro compensation for 'any delay' over so many hours. Even when the CAA TOLD them to pay they dragged it out. I did get 50,000 miles for the loss of my jacket on a previous flight

[Digga]

Burwood said:

Digga said:

Burwood said:

Digga said:

It all comes back to the fact that, the more of these stories that surface, the more the impression that large sections of the air industry treat their passengers worse than cattle and regard them as a nuisance first, items to be transported second and as customers possibly not even as a third priority.

That is my impression and experience. Of course only manifesting itself when there is some sort of issue. Of course the vast majority of airline staff I've encountered have been great.

I was on the maiden Emirates A380 out of Gatwick. The check in line was huge and not moving. It got to 1 hour before departure and they checked in everyone but it was clear there was an issue. Once checked in they announced 'sorry the plane is broken' you are all staying in a hotel until the following day! I checked my phone and there was an Emirates flight out of Heathrow in 3 hours-i wanted it! But Emirates refused to return my checked case due to 'security' which is a fabrication. What they wanted to do is ensure the replacement plane had a full load . They effectively held me to ransom and ruined my trip. It turns out they knew the plane was down 8 hours prior.

I had a st experience last year. I was on a business trip, on my way home from Shanghai, urgently, because Mrs Digga had told me our dog was suddenly taken very ill (only 8 but had cancer and was PTS two days later) and I was desperate to get back.

I'd arrived in Shanghai the evening before from Wenzou and, minutes before I was about to go to sleep, got a text saying my Swiss Air flight was cancelled. I called Swiss Air helpline and they helpful guy ran through two alternatives; one via Copenhagen SAS (IIRC) and another on Lufthansa via Frankfurt. I opted for the former, as it arrived sooner - my only criteria.

The next morning, I got to the airport to find the Copenhagen flight had also been cancelled. The airport check in staff appeared to be utterly clueless, or perhaps unsupported an it was only because I'd got the LH flight details written down that they then realised to re-route me through Frankfurt. And still it took them nearly 45 minutes to check me in.

In summary, I would rather never have to fly again. I'm not the least bit nervous about flying itself, it's the whole dreary airport/airline experience that sucks any enjoyment out of the journey (and then some from the trip too) every time.

My above flight was onto Shanghai too. The trip was a wash due to their deceit.They then had the cheek to deny the 600 euro compensation for 'any delay' over so many hours. Even when the CAA TOLD them to pay they dragged it out. I did get 50,000 miles for the loss of my jacket on a previous flight

Same with me regarding delayed flight compensation. Given the circumstances at the time, I had far better things to do than argue the toss with Swiss Air. Needless to say, they will be avoided like the plague. Their business class flight was pretty average anyway. Lufthansa was a world apart - much, much better. Was also the first all-female flight-deck I've knowingly flown with.

[Sheepshanks]

Digga said:

In summary, I would rather never have to fly again. I'm not the least bit nervous about flying itself, it's the whole dreary airport/airline experience that sucks any enjoyment out of the journey (and then some from the trip too) every time.

Me too. Apparently it's OK if you fly full-fare first class, and someone can escort you through the airport. I'll just need to win the lottery first.

[surveyor]

I'm wondering whether the tide has turned against the airlines. Is this the sign of people saying enough is enough?

The idea that the TOC can be written in such a way that an airline can kick off a paying customer to replace them with staff is pretty anti-customer. To date the airlines have always been winning as they own the plane, and no-one see's or hears of the rows.

[Sylvaforever]

poo at Paul's said:

The Spruce goose said:

so he has been paid off and not allowed to disclose, got to be a at least a few hundred thousand, but I think maybe a million.

$30 mil I reckon

$50m plus it's not about 2 teeth and a broken nose it's about United avoiding the expense of a court case losing, and the months of publicity in doing so

[anonymous-user]

Sylvaforever said:

poo at Paul's said:

The Spruce goose said:

so he has been paid off and not allowed to disclose, got to be a at least a few hundred thousand, but I think maybe a million.

$30 mil I reckon

$50m plus it's not about 2 teeth and a broken nose it's about United avoiding the expense of a court case losing, and the months of publicity in doing so

What are you people basing these wildly different figures on? Do you have experience in this area or are they just made up numbers?

[GroundEffect]

Sheepshanks said:

Digga said:

In summary, I would rather never have to fly again. I'm not the least bit nervous about flying itself, it's the whole dreary airport/airline experience that sucks any enjoyment out of the journey (and then some from the trip too) every time.

Me too. Apparently it's OK if you fly full-fare first class, and someone can escort you through the airport. I'll just need to win the lottery first.

Due to work regs, we fly business over 5 hours and first if theres no business. Ive done Virgin first class to Shanghai including limo pickup. I hate hate long haul flying as it just drains me but that at least slightly made up for it! What made the difference was the airport experience - dropped off at Heathrow 1st class departures, straight through same security pilots use and right in to lounge for lunch and a massage. Flights were £5k return though....

[anonymous-user]

El stovey said:

Sylvaforever said:

poo at Paul's said:

The Spruce goose said:

so he has been paid off and not allowed to disclose, got to be a at least a few hundred thousand, but I think maybe a million.

$30 mil I reckon

$50m plus it's not about 2 teeth and a broken nose it's about United avoiding the expense of a court case losing, and the months of publicity in doing so

What are you people basing these wildly different figures on? Do you have experience in this area or are they just made up numbers?

I think it's a safe bet they're just making them up as they go along.

"I think the payout was 10 billion!"

[Halb]

El stovey said:

What are you people basing these wildly different figures on? Do you have experience in this area or are they just made up numbers?

Even handed view here. It was certainly bad PR for UA.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/28/opinions/united-...

I still reckon around 2, less than 10.

[NoNeed]

Halb said:

El stovey said:

What are you people basing these wildly different figures on? Do you have experience in this area or are they just made up numbers?

Even handed view here. It was certainly bad PR for UA.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/28/opinions/united-...

I still reckon around 2, less than 10.

I think the same, certainly a couple of milion to make him go away quietly and quickly, this also save a legal precedent being made that could seriously harm their business practice/model.