United passenger forcibly removed from overbooked flight..
Discussion
Who gives the order to forcibly remove a passenger who has done nothing wrong and isn't a security threat etc? The pilot or a suit in an office?
And what reason do they give the police/security for wanting him forcibly removed?
UA: Hello security, we need a bloke taken off the plane by force immediately.
Security: Ok. Sounds serious. Is this a security issue? He obviously poses a threat. What's he done wrong exactly?
UA: Oh nothing whatsoever, we just want rid of him because we've totally f
ked up.
Security: No worries. We will give him a good slap.
And what reason do they give the police/security for wanting him forcibly removed?
UA: Hello security, we need a bloke taken off the plane by force immediately.
Security: Ok. Sounds serious. Is this a security issue? He obviously poses a threat. What's he done wrong exactly?
UA: Oh nothing whatsoever, we just want rid of him because we've totally f
ked up.Security: No worries. We will give him a good slap.
Nanook said:
Lots of quotes that I can't make work
"Beat a man up" is the bit that I don't see anyone agreeing with.But if you refuse to do what the crew and the Police tell you to do I don't think it can be a surprise if they choose to use force.
That United's approach is poor PR I agree 100%, and it probably will cost them, but once they'd taken their stance there was only one outcome, and I think that was decided by the Police rather than United, unless it was United's staff who dragged him off the plane which I'm genuinely unclear on.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Nanook said:
Lots of quotes that I can't make work
"Beat a man up" is the bit that I don't see anyone agreeing with.But if you refuse to do what the crew and the Police tell you to do I don't think it can be a surprise if they choose to use force.
That United's approach is poor PR I agree 100%, and it probably will cost them, but once they'd taken their stance there was only one outcome, and I think that was decided by the Police rather than United, unless it was United's staff who dragged him off the plane which I'm genuinely unclear on.
As you said. It will end badly.
Being technically correct - You can win the battle but lose the war.
Ignoring for a second the appalling absurdity of the original incident, how are companies as big as UA still not on top their PR/social media game?
If something like this happens you've got to know they'll be a million videos with, the only way you limit the damage is quick responses and provide as much information as possible.
You don't release a few vague lines of text from a CEO nearly a day later!
If something like this happens you've got to know they'll be a million videos with, the only way you limit the damage is quick responses and provide as much information as possible.
You don't release a few vague lines of text from a CEO nearly a day later!
La Liga said:
t's hardly pedantic / bizarre to expect one side to adhere to the contract they agreed to, is it?
If I buy an airline ticket then I know that there are circumstances in which my flight may be denied. Would it annoy me? Would I want compensating? Would I choose a different airline in the future?
Perhaps yes to all, but I wouldn't escalate the situation once the airline had made the decision 'enforce' part of their contract.
It's important to know when to 'cut your losses'. At the point security had got on the plane it would have been prudent for him to leave the aircraft.
Everyone, other than La Liga...why are you feeding the troll (in the interests of clarity, La Liga == The TrollIf I buy an airline ticket then I know that there are circumstances in which my flight may be denied. Would it annoy me? Would I want compensating? Would I choose a different airline in the future?
Perhaps yes to all, but I wouldn't escalate the situation once the airline had made the decision 'enforce' part of their contract.
It's important to know when to 'cut your losses'. At the point security had got on the plane it would have been prudent for him to leave the aircraft.
BIANCO said:
Haha and no doubt they wouldn't have had their face smashed in accidentally if he had been civil and left when politely asked to do so. When you apologized for messing up and offering them £700 around 3 times what they was paying you.
"accidentally"? 
Of course, it is impossible to foresee the potential consequences of heaving someone in the general opposite direction of where they're sitting.You talk as if he was asked to leave a posh nightclub for wearing dirty trainers. People generally don't fly for a laugh. People fly because they need to be somewhere.
They decided it was best to remove a bunch of passengers so that some staff could get a lift to a city 5 hours away by car. Really? You think that is acceptable behaviour?
Nanook said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: "Beat a man up" is the bit that I don't see anyone agreeing with.
But if you refuse to do what the crew and the Police tell you to do I don't think it can be a surprise if they choose to use force.
That United's approach is poor PR I agree 100%, and it probably will cost them, but once they'd taken their stance there was only one outcome, and I think that was decided by the Police rather than United, unless it was United's staff who dragged him off the plane which I'm genuinely unclear on.
Ah, I didn't realise that was the bit you objected to. He ran back on the plane with a bloody nose. I doubt he did that to himself. But if you refuse to do what the crew and the Police tell you to do I don't think it can be a surprise if they choose to use force.
That United's approach is poor PR I agree 100%, and it probably will cost them, but once they'd taken their stance there was only one outcome, and I think that was decided by the Police rather than United, unless it was United's staff who dragged him off the plane which I'm genuinely unclear on.
For the second time, security removed him from the plane at the cabin crew's request. There were no police present.
They'd made up their mind, so they had to follow through? Really?
Do I agree with United's approach to "volunteering"? No of course not.
Once United chose that approach and they called Security and the Police was there ever going to be any outcome other than the chap going off the plane? No.
Does not doing what the Police and Airport Security tell you to do ever end well for you in the US? Probably not.
I don't see anyone saying it's OK or acceptable that he got beaten up, only that it's obvious that if you don't do what you're told on a plane over there there's a good chance they'll use force, and in that situation it's unlikely to end well for you.
Choose your battles is all I'm saying, and even if you're in the right, US airport security isn't one you'll win.
Edited by bhstewie on Monday 10th April 20:12
hstewie on Monday 10th April 20:12amusingduck said:
BIANCO said:
Haha and no doubt they wouldn't have had their face smashed in accidentally if he had been civil and left when politely asked to do so. When you apologized for messing up and offering them £700 around 3 times what they was paying you.
"accidentally"? Of course, it is impossible to foresee the potential consequences of heaving someone in the general opposite direction of where they're sitting.You talk as if he was asked to leave a posh nightclub for wearing dirty trainers. People generally don't fly for a laugh. People fly because they need to be somewhere.
They decided it was best to remove a bunch of passengers so that some staff could get a lift to a city 5 hours away by car. Really? You think that is acceptable behaviour?
La Liga said:
Beat him? Doesn't look like it from that short video.
Some screaming, nose bouncing off the seat opposite, being dragged out apparently unconscious. All to the sound of other passengers' distress. It doesn't sound like they've used charm and wiles on him, does it?La Liga said:
Extraction from a plane with someone who is resisting is hard work and quite messy given the tight space. It's also quite risky given how close objects are as the passenger found out given his head ended up in the opposite seat's arm rest.
It's also quite unnecessary given how he'd done nothing other than expect the ride home he'd paid for.BIANCO said:
If the staff didn't get to where they needed to be than i would have thought there would have been a good chance an entire flight would have needed to be canceled. That's hundreds of people not getting where they are going not just one.
The fact is the plane is private property and if owner whats you out you get out no matter if you have paid to be there. If in the process they brake a contact with you all you can do is send in a compliant and demand compensation. What you cant do it turn in physical and refuse to leave.
So it's the guy's fault for not leaving then?, rather than UA messing up and overbooking. Makes perfect sense, unlike a huge company having a contingency plan to get staff relocated / re rostered, they just chuck paying pax off with a beating for good measure.The fact is the plane is private property and if owner whats you out you get out no matter if you have paid to be there. If in the process they brake a contact with you all you can do is send in a compliant and demand compensation. What you cant do it turn in physical and refuse to leave.
Rovinghawk said:
La Liga said:
Beat him? Doesn't look like it from that short video.
Some screaming, nose bouncing off the seat opposite, being dragged out apparently unconscious. All to the sound of other passengers' distress. It doesn't sound like they've used charm and wiles on him, does it?La Liga said:
Extraction from a plane with someone who is resisting is hard work and quite messy given the tight space. It's also quite risky given how close objects are as the passenger found out given his head ended up in the opposite seat's arm rest.
It's also quite unnecessary given how he'd done nothing other than expect the ride home he'd paid for.BIANCO said:
Chim said:
BIANCO said:
I hope the next time all the people who are defending this guy are on a flight and are in a similar situation where someone is asked to leave and doesn't. And then spend the next 4 hours sat at the terminal trying to resolve the issue because they don't get off.
I do wonder how supportive of the person they would be then.
If where on that flight, what would you have wanted them to do, pick someone else which then could have been you?
The idea that if you buy a ticket you somehow then own the plane is just stupid. Has for people saying he did nothing wrong, he did he didn't get off when told to.
I'm all for a good level of consumer rights but it does seem many people have now got a massive over inflated expectation of what they can and cannot expect.
Hell yes, bloody ridiculous attitude. How dare this idiot, just because he bought a ticket, paid for it, got on the plane and sat down. How dare he expect the airline to actually take him where he needed to go. People have way to high an expectation of our corporate overlords, just because we pay for something does not mean we should actually expect them to provide it.I do wonder how supportive of the person they would be then.
If where on that flight, what would you have wanted them to do, pick someone else which then could have been you?
The idea that if you buy a ticket you somehow then own the plane is just stupid. Has for people saying he did nothing wrong, he did he didn't get off when told to.
I'm all for a good level of consumer rights but it does seem many people have now got a massive over inflated expectation of what they can and cannot expect.
Edited by BIANCO on Monday 10th April 18:58
BIANCO said:
If the staff didn't get to where they needed to be than i would have thought there would have been a good chance an entire flight would have needed to be canceled. That's hundreds of people not getting where they are going not just one.
The fact is the plane is private property and if owner whats you out you get out no matter if you have paid to be there. If in the process they brake a contact with you all you can do is send in a compliant and demand compensation. What you cant do it turn in physical and refuse to leave.
you seem very certain it was aircrew ,and that aircrew didn't have the option of driving for some reason. i don't think you will find many industry professionals (professional being the operative word that ua appear not to understand) supportive of how this situation was handled.The fact is the plane is private property and if owner whats you out you get out no matter if you have paid to be there. If in the process they brake a contact with you all you can do is send in a compliant and demand compensation. What you cant do it turn in physical and refuse to leave.
dazwalsh said:
Or give the staff members the 800 dollars and tell em to make their own way there and keep the change. Hey presto, no PR disaster.
I'm assuming that in this specific case the staff absolutely had to make that flight to get to the flight they were due to crew, and there were no alternatives, hence having to involuntarily bump paying passengers. If that wasn't the case then United are complete tts....BIANCO said:
If it was such a sort drive then why all the fuss about this guy not getting off? he could have just driven himself?
the bloke had paid for the seat and apparently had patients to attend to in his line of work (i do wonder if that has been embellished slightly). he did nothing wrong ,it was the airlines balls up. their job to sort it professionally . keep upping the $ incentive and the required amount of people would have moved.getting the airport police to forcibly remove him was sheer stupidity. outside africa i doubt this would happen anywhere else or with any other airline.
Gareth79 said:
dazwalsh said:
Or give the staff members the 800 dollars and tell em to make their own way there and keep the change. Hey presto, no PR disaster.
I'm assuming that in this specific case the staff absolutely had to make that flight to get to the flight they were due to crew, and there were no alternatives, hence having to involuntarily bump paying passengers. If that wasn't the case then United are complete tts....1. Offer passengers more/better incentive
2. Fly plane back empty for crew to fly back in the morning (expensive I'm sure - and there may be hours issue for current crew)
3. Charter a smaller plane to drop the crew off.
4. fly them to a nearer airport and taxi them over.
5. divert a flight to drop 'em off.
Obviously they are not all cheap solutions - but given that they just dragged a fair paying passenger off their plane personally I think some of them would be viable.
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