Snap General Election?

[Puggit]

LibDems will be crowing about doubling their seats

[turbobloke]

Puggit said:

LibDems will be crowing about doubling their seats

Cruel but fair. Double figures at least.

[FiF]

amusingduck said:

El stovey said:

RichB said:

eharding said:

The future is looking bleak for the 10 Downing Street cat....

He looks far too soft to worry the Downing Street cat!

It looks like it could connect with voters and put our country first. It's certainly going to be against foreign aid.

Golden retrievers have been quite active in the public debate on terrorism lately.



This is how revolution starts.

Vote Jeremy Pawbyn to stop the Pawries from gutting the PDSA

To be fair, I can't actually imagine JC looking as smart as this Good Doggo

Well ours has got the Charles (Soz, bit tired at the moment) Kennedy look off to a tee.

[FN2TypeR]

FiF said:

Well ours has got the Charles (Soz, bit tired at the moment) Kennedy look off to a tee.

It's dead?

[mx-6]

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

Burwood said:

It's amusing how the word democracy now means overturning that what was democratically decided.

I'm getting a bit bored with this Brexiteer line. A new vote on a new day can democractically decide something new and different, what's difficult to understand about that?

The bit that's easy to understand is that referendum voting isn't repeated until the result is obtained that somebody or some faction wishes to see. They are in essence decision makers used at critical moments in a nation's history or 'future history' and the recent EU vote had no conditions on turnout, margin of victory or negotiation conditions attached.

When I say voting isn't repeated, that's unless you're the EU and you don't like the way Ireland voted on the 'consitution' so a re-run is organised after some buy-offs, but that's part of the problem and the solution is we're leaving.

A referendum is an indictation of public opinion but as you know the result is essentially advisory, not a legal requirement, the encumbant government make the decision in parliament. I do think that the government have a mandate to implement the outcome of the vote but circumstances can change.

Any government going to the people in a referendum which is presaged as a definitive say (by the people) which then goes back on their word "because a referendum is essentially advisory" would get their sorry ass kicked out asafp never to return to gov't in living memory. They know it, we know it.

Quite possibly.

But if in the meantime, before they could implement the referendum result, there was a GE, the government changed, politician with different views elected, change in public opinion, change in economic conditions, etc. then there might have been enough water under the bridge and enough of a change in circumstances for grounds to delay or make an alternative decision.

So many ifs that beggar belief it may as well be cloud cuckoo land.

Here's another, somewhat more credible however.

If another Remain/Leave vote was held alongside the GE my view is that Leave would win far more decisively. As nobody knows the future I can't guarantee it any more than Labour, the LibDems and the SNP getting their asses kicked on the 8th, but I'll put a shilling on the side anyway

Heh, well I don't disagree and it does look like I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm still not in favour of Brexit and I will still be voting Lib Dem instead of Conservative, despite the high likelyhood of them being returned with a majority.

[anonymous-user]

FN2TypeR said:

FiF said:

Well ours has got the Charles (Soz, bit tired at the moment) Kennedy look off to a tee.

It's dead?

[turbobloke]

mx-6 said:

Heh, well I don't disagree and it does look like I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm still not in favour of Brexit and I will still be voting Lib Dem instead of Conservative, despite the high likelyhood of them being returned with a majority.

Fair enough, you and sixer are doing what you think is right in the circumstances.

This gets my vote and is infinitely better than somebody doing what Russell Brand says they should do.

Then again Brand is far better known than Tim Who.

[FN2TypeR]

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

Heh, well I don't disagree and it does look like I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm still not in favour of Brexit and I will still be voting Lib Dem instead of Conservative, despite the high likelyhood of them being returned with a majority.

Fair enough, you and sixer are doing what you think is right in the circumstances.

This gets my vote and is infinitely better than somebody doing what Russell Brand says they should do.

Then again Brand is far better known than Tim Who.

Tom Fallon

[turbobloke]

FN2TypeR said:

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

Heh, well I don't disagree and it does look like I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm still not in favour of Brexit and I will still be voting Lib Dem instead of Conservative, despite the high likelyhood of them being returned with a majority.

Fair enough, you and sixer are doing what you think is right in the circumstances.

This gets my vote and is infinitely better than somebody doing what Russell Brand says they should do.

Then again Brand is far better known than Tim Who.

Tom Fallon

Who?!

[ATG]

turbobloke said:

ATG said:

turbobloke said:

Exactly.

Democratic decisions that remoaners don't like are now painted as either undemocratic or a far right coup or both. Past, present or future makes no difference.

Who's claiming the referendum was undemocratic? Misguided, badly informed are not the same as undemocratic.

See thread.

ATG said:

The challenge is to explain why a future referendum is inherently undemocratic or why a mandate from a general election wouldn't trump an earlier referendum.

Lookling forward to the imminent re-defeat of the LibDem's push for an AV electoral system after they win power in June. I'm not the one smoking it, btw.

ATG said:

There may be practical reasons why one might hope the leave decision is settled, but there is no democratic principle that makes it inherently wrong to ask the people if they support whatever deal gets negotiated, or indeed any other question.

There was a gap of decades between the EEC 'remain' vote and the EU 'leave' vote and I too can see nothing wrong with a vote on re-joining the EU in a few tens of years.

ATG said:

If a government kept repeating the same question over and over again while refusing to start implementing Brexit, then there'd be grounds for complaining that they weren't behaving democratically, but they'd be at fault because of their failure to get on with the policy, not because they kept calling referenda.

Only the EU would countenance such ludicrous political machinations and we've already found an answer - we're leaving the EU.

ATG said:

The general public are allowed to change their minds. People who failed to cast a vote last time aren't permanently disenfranchised.

General elections every year or so? Sure, just changing minds.

ATG said:

Not wanting to hold a vote for fear of losing while complaining that the very idea of a second vote is undemocratic in principle would be just a little hypocritical.

Your assumption over fear of losing is totally misplaced. It's your own creation.

Have another go on the 9th of June.

Edited by turbobloke on Monday 24th April 13:55

Why did you bother posting this reply? You haven't said anything in it.

[mx-6]

turbobloke said:

mx-6 said:

Heh, well I don't disagree and it does look like I'm clutching at straws. It doesn't really matter though, as I'm still not in favour of Brexit and I will still be voting Lib Dem instead of Conservative, despite the high likelyhood of them being returned with a majority.

Fair enough, you and sixer are doing what you think is right in the circumstances.

This gets my vote and is infinitely better than somebody doing what Russell Brand says they should do.

Then again Brand is far better known than Tim Who.

As I've mentioned previously in the thread, I'm in a very safe Conservative, leave voting area so I won't be in the position to change anything, it's a piss in the wind...

As for Farron, of course he gets plenty of stick from those of a political right persuasion. He's certainly no heavyweight and doesn't have the bearing of a prime minister in waiting by any means. He does seem like a decent man to me though with generally sensible, moderate views. He's a practicing Christian and the whole gay sin thing is a little problematic for me, but it doesn't seem to affect his political judgement.

I'm still awaiting the manifestos with interest...

Edited by mx-6 on Monday 24th April 15:23

[anonymous-user]

ATG said:

Why did you bother posting this reply? You haven't said anything in it.

It's 'turbowang' loads of nested quotes impossible to reply to or even argue with.

Often there will be links to websites and some graphs and tables containing 'turbofacts' too.

[sidicks]

SilverSixer said:

What an entirely graceless acceptance.

I accepted your apology in entirely good grace.

You also made an entirely separate accusation without explanation or evidence, which I refuted at the time and continue to do so.

SilverSixer said:

How's about the entire structure and successes of the European Union?

Please provide a copy of my posts where I've tried to 'rewrite history' as far as the structure and success of the European Union is concerned (Or you could simply withdraw the unfounded accusation)!


Thanks

Edited by sidicks on Monday 24th April 15:23

[London424]

https://twitter.com/pajoflynn/status/8560955718279...

[SilverSixer]

sidicks said:

SilverSixer said:

What an entirely graceless acceptance.

I accepted your apology in entirely good grace.

You also made an entirely separate accusation without explanation or evidence, which I refuted at the time and continue to do so.

SilverSixer said:

How's about the entire structure and successes of the European Union?

Please provide a copy of my posts where I've tried to 'rewrite history' as far as the structure and success of the European Union is concerned (Or you could simply withdraw the unfounded accusation)!


Thanks

Edited by sidicks on Monday 24th April 15:23

Well your claims that EU membership had no bearing on London being a global financial hub in the Gibraltar thread was one, there are probably others. Have you tried using search in this rickety forum? It's hopeless. We all know where you stand on the issue.

But please. Let's not make this thread about you, it's about the General Election.

[FiF]

El stovey said:

FN2TypeR said:

FiF said:

Well ours has got the Charles (Soz, bit tired at the moment) Kennedy look off to a tee.

It's dead?

Well seeing as he's sitting here trying to work out how to get his paws on the sausages intended for supper, perhaps that was a bad choice. Hmmmm, greedy, trying to nick something to which he's not entitled, gets a contrary instruction but just carries on as before, goofy three sheets to the wind expression, has to be Jean Claude (Hic) Juncker then. Any better? Not much.

[amusingduck]

SilverSixer said:

Have you tried using search in this rickety forum? It's hopeless. We all know where you stand on the issue.

Google can be useful sometimes.

I remember Sway talking about euro clearing etc, so I've used him as an example

If you google

"sway" site:pistonheads.com "brexit" "clearing"

you get some of his posts related to euro clearing.

It's not great, but might be better than nothing

[sidicks]

SilverSixer said:

Well your claims that EU membership had no bearing on London being a global financial hub in the Gibraltar thread was one, there are probably others.

Except that isn't what I said is it - after all the UK was a global financial hub well before the EU came into existence.

'Probably others' - if you are going to accuse someone of taking a particular stance then you've better be pretty sure if your ground and provide some evidence, rather than some vague reference to what someone 'probably' said.

SilverSixer said:

Have you tried using search in this rickety forum? It's hopeless. We all know where you stand on the issue.

Expect you don't seem to know at all, so seek to misrepresent my views. Please don't do this or I'll pick you up on it

SilverSixer said:

But please. Let's not make this thread about you, it's about the General Election.

Can I suggest you stop making false personal accusations in that case?

Edited by sidicks on Monday 24th April 16:00

[Murph7355]

sidicks said:

Murph7355 said:

I reckon they may get more...

For the Remain camp, however, I suspect some of these may come from the SNP and Labour. So will make little difference.

I just had a quick look at the spread betting on the LibDems and if I'm reading it correctly (not guaranteed as I'm not a gambler) then it looks like the feeling is they'll get a lot more than 12...

Around 25 according to betfair. Not sure that's going to give them much of a say in government going forward!

Paying out after 27-30 on one site I looked at.

A lot more than 12, even if on its own it would be unlikely to hurt the Tories too badly.

But I have a bad feeling that May's decision on this one could well backfire. I don't trust the polls, and anything other than a very substantial increase in majority, one that neutralises the effect of the LibDems and SNP IMO, will not be a great result.

[Burwood]

Murph7355 said:

sidicks said:

Murph7355 said:

I reckon they may get more...

For the Remain camp, however, I suspect some of these may come from the SNP and Labour. So will make little difference.

I just had a quick look at the spread betting on the LibDems and if I'm reading it correctly (not guaranteed as I'm not a gambler) then it looks like the feeling is they'll get a lot more than 12...

Around 25 according to betfair. Not sure that's going to give them much of a say in government going forward!

Paying out after 27-30 on one site I looked at.

A lot more than 12, even if on its own it would be unlikely to hurt the Tories too badly.

But I have a bad feeling that May's decision on this one could well backfire. I don't trust the polls, and anything other than a very substantial increase in majority, one that neutralises the effect of the LibDems and SNP IMO, will not be a great result.

If anything I wouldn't believe that come June 8th, the LibDems will get what the polls say today. So many voters will be annoyed but most, come voting day, will tick the blue box. Im still calling for 400 Tory seats.