Snap General Election?

[SilverSixer]

Murph7355 said:

SilverSixer said:

...
Polite request - would you mind withdrawing the "leave the country" rhetoric? It's totally uncalled for and it really isn't a good look. Do you want to come here for discussion or just to abuse people who disagree with you?

Hang on though SilverSix...you've openly admitted that your aim IS to leave the country and go an live in Languedoc.

So why get upset about people suggesting it?



(Does a 62% Remain constituency really need mass effort? Surely it should be a cake walk for the LibDems?).

Because it's nobody else's business, and the question, as I said is loaded. Not only that, I have considered for more than 20 years that France, Germany etc are essentially in the same country in which I live, so Languedoc isn't a move "abroad" to me, it's in my European home. I want to protect the rights which I have in that regard.

Nowhere is a cake walk for the LibDems. The Remain and Leave votes weren't party aligned. Sure you understand that. But the party has an opportunity to take votes from Remainers to the right and left of it, but of course many folks who voted Remain don't have the EU as their top worry bead and will vote Tory or Labour still. LibDem vote is variable here, the seat was a three-way marginal in 2005 and 2010, but LibDems bombed in 2015. It certainly isn't a cake walk here, hence the effort I'm personally willing to put in to help. There is historic good will for the party out there, we've just got to go out and motivate it.

It's up for grabs, we may pull off a surprise or disappear beneath the waves. Either way, I'll look in the mirror and say I did my bit for what I believe in.

[Fastdruid]

SilverSixer said:

There is historic good will for the party out there, we've just got to go out and motivate it.

Honestly I think they burnt all that.
Between the shafting of the students over fees and the feeling of people over the coalition I don't see much goodwill left.

Plus by pandering entirely to the hard-core anti-democratic remain at all costs vote they have pretty much set their upper limit to ~20%.

[sidicks]

SilverSixer said:

Because it's nobody else's business, and the question, as I said is loaded.

Please explain in what way it is 'loaded'. It seems fairly straightforward to me.

SilverSixer said:

Not only that, I have considered for more than 20 years that France, Germany etc are essentially in the same country in which I live, so Languedoc isn't a move "abroad" to me, it's in my European home. I want to protect the rights which I have in that regard.

It is abroad, whether you like it or not. Just as the UK will still be part of Europe, post Brexit!

SilverSixer said:

It's up for grabs, we may pull off a surprise or disappear beneath the waves. Either way, I'll look in the mirror and say I did my bit for what I believe in.

Are you going to summarise their key policies to help convince the rest of us?

[Burwood]

Sixer-if you don't like the responses then perhaps refrain the same Pro EU diatribe. All leavers are racist, uneducated kippers and such like. You lose all credibility when you use the words extreme far right.

Unfortunately, your utopia is wishful thinking and I can see why that is making you into a bit of a lunatic

[Murph7355]

SilverSixer said:

...
It's up for grabs, we may pull off a surprise or disappear beneath the waves. Either way, I'll look in the mirror and say I did my bit for what I believe in.

Good luck (genuinely).

But please accept the vote if it goes against.

I am quite sure the French will welcome you with open arms when the time comes. But this country needs to calm down a number of notches if it is to make a fist of anything and the worm has now turned. Assuming the overall vote goes the way most are expecting (I'm less sure the outcome will be positive) we need to give that direction a damn good shot.

[anonymous-user]

RichB said:

eharding said:

The future is looking bleak for the 10 Downing Street cat....

He looks far too soft to worry the Downing Street cat!

It looks like it could connect with voters and put our country first. It's certainly going to be against foreign aid.

Golden retrievers have been quite active in the public debate on terrorism lately.



This is how revolution starts.

[amusingduck]

El stovey said:

RichB said:

eharding said:

The future is looking bleak for the 10 Downing Street cat....

He looks far too soft to worry the Downing Street cat!

It looks like it could connect with voters and put our country first. It's certainly going to be against foreign aid.

Golden retrievers have been quite active in the public debate on terrorism lately.



This is how revolution starts.

Vote Jeremy Pawbyn to stop the Pawries from gutting the PDSA

To be fair, I can't actually imagine JC looking as smart as this Good Doggo

[SilverSixer]

sidicks said:

SilverSixer said:

Because it's nobody else's business, and the question, as I said is loaded.

Please explain in what way it is 'loaded'. It seems fairly straightforward to me.

SilverSixer said:

Not only that, I have considered for more than 20 years that France, Germany etc are essentially in the same country in which I live, so Languedoc isn't a move "abroad" to me, it's in my European home. I want to protect the rights which I have in that regard.

It is abroad, whether you like it or not. Just as the UK will still be part of Europe, post Brexit!

SilverSixer said:

It's up for grabs, we may pull off a surprise or disappear beneath the waves. Either way, I'll look in the mirror and say I did my bit for what I believe in.

Are you going to summarise their key policies to help convince the rest of us?

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. Obviously won't be for many others, and it also obviously implies the best LibDems can do is oppose the fairly inevitable Tory government.

Once the full manifesto is out, we can discuss it then. I'm a bit disappointed Farron has ruled out coalition, but he's left the door open to a coalition in the case of Corbyn or May not being the leader of their part, so it's not a killer for me.

I'm pretty sure there will be a Tory majority, but there is going to be an unexpected aspect to this election of some kind. How about this for a theory - May and Corbyn both lose their seats? Islington is very Remainy, and so far only a LibDem is standing against him. Gina Miller rumoured to stand in Maidenhead - cat amongst pigeons? Yes, fantasy realms perhaps, but something weird is going to come out of this election.

[Murph7355]

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. ....

How do you expect that to pan out though? What do you see as the set of potential outcomes of such a move, and how would you rank them in terms of likelihood (ignoring personal plans)?

Let's say we agree that the Tories miscalculated under Cameron with the referendum. There has been a ton of criticism of it around the unintended consequences, lack of plan etc. Most of the vitriolic stuff from your preferred PM in waiting, Tim Farron.

So ensuring he is not a hypocrite, what is the plan for each outcome of that policy?

(My guess is - there isn't one and that you will be voting for a hypocrite ).

[jonby]

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me.

I just don't get the logic in this

What is supposed to happen if the country vote no ?

Meanwhile as anyone who has any experience of negotiations understands, when it comes down to the final push, you never get the best deal out of the other side unless you are the decision maker

I can just see it now. EU offer X. We say 'well we are happy with that in return for Y. But obviously whatever we agree is subject to a nationwide referendum in a few months time......I'll get back to you after we get the result......'

[eharding]

El stovey said:

It looks like it could connect with voters and put our country first.

We've got the headwear merchandising sorted already....

[RichB]

SilverSixer said:

Gina Miller rumoured to stand in Maidenhead - cat amongst pigeons? Yes, fantasy

I've never heard of her so had to look her up. So she's worth £100 million and she's some kind of chief remoaner. Crowd sourced money to fight her campaign. I guess she didn't want to lose her own.

[SilverSixer]

Murph7355 said:

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. ....

How do you expect that to pan out though? What do you see as the set of potential outcomes of such a move, and how would you rank them in terms of likelihood (ignoring personal plans)?

Let's say we agree that the Tories miscalculated under Cameron with the referendum. There has been a ton of criticism of it around the unintended consequences, lack of plan etc. Most of the vitriolic stuff from your preferred PM in waiting, Tim Farron.

So ensuring he is not a hypocrite, what is the plan for each outcome of that policy?

(My guess is - there isn't one and that you will be voting for a hypocrite ).

Well the outcome can only be either we Leave or Remain in the EU. I want the latter, the LibsDems are the only party (in England) offering that chance still, so I'm voting for them. Should a hypothetical referendum on the deal deliver a Leave vote accepting that deal, a LibDem government would implement that result. I differ a bit with the party on that one, I'll then be looking elsewhere.

I'm a bit troubled by the constant demands to "accept" things, which seems to me to imply that dissent should be quoshed. that's not how I understand democracy to work. We don't have to accept anything, that's the whole point. of course, I'd have to live with whatever happens, we all do, but I'd still be entitled to campaign for change. Eurosceptics didn't' just accept EU membership, after all.

[Burwood]

SilverSixer said:

Murph7355 said:

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. ....

How do you expect that to pan out though? What do you see as the set of potential outcomes of such a move, and how would you rank them in terms of likelihood (ignoring personal plans)?

Let's say we agree that the Tories miscalculated under Cameron with the referendum. There has been a ton of criticism of it around the unintended consequences, lack of plan etc. Most of the vitriolic stuff from your preferred PM in waiting, Tim Farron.

So ensuring he is not a hypocrite, what is the plan for each outcome of that policy?

(My guess is - there isn't one and that you will be voting for a hypocrite ).

Well the outcome can only be either we Leave or Remain in the EU. I want the latter, the LibsDems are the only party (in England) offering that chance still, so I'm voting for them. Should a hypothetical referendum on the deal deliver a Leave vote accepting that deal, a LibDem government would implement that result. I differ a bit with the party on that one, I'll then be looking elsewhere.


I'm a bit troubled by the constant demands to "accept" things, which seems to me to imply that dissent should be quoshed. that's not how I understand democracy to work. We don't have to accept anything, that's the whole point. of course, I'd have to live with whatever happens, we all do, but I'd still be entitled to campaign for change. Eurosceptics didn't' just accept EU membership, after all.

It's amusing how the word democracy now means overturning that what was democratically decided.

[trackside tripod]

It's just in the last couple of years that politics has become seemingly gang related in it's conduct. It's got voters or potential voters so aggresive that they believe literally any bovine faeces that is produced from the politicians mouths.

Everyone's disgusted that Tories are going for a hard brexit, Lib Dems didn't like the result so would go for another vote until they got their way and it seems you can get a free pen and more holidays if you vote Labour.

The blatantly obvious truth however, is that whoever is in power has to call for a hard Brexit or they'd be annihilated by the unelected, self interested Europeans who want to teach us a lesson for wanting to leave and to stop other Countries for following suit. This is not rocket science here, it's simple playground politics. Everyone in opposition (whoever it is) will obviously say that it's awful that the Government want a hard Brexit but you mark my words, if Labour or Lib Dems got in, they'd have to call for a hard Brexit or the UK would be in real trouble. It's not something that anyone wants, but it has to be on the table or we'll end up being out of Europe and still paying for it.

One final point, if anything takes me further away from Corbyn, it's the rude lefty militant supporters of his, who tell me that a vote for anyone else or voting Brexit makes you racist or a Tory scumbag. You know who you are and it's not doing your cause any good whatsoever. I saw the French have the same problem, with their militant lefties not liking the result so going out on the streets with molatov cocktails and causing criminal damage! Get a grip everyone!

[turbobloke]

Burwood said:

SilverSixer said:

Murph7355 said:

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. ....

How do you expect that to pan out though? What do you see as the set of potential outcomes of such a move, and how would you rank them in terms of likelihood (ignoring personal plans)?

Let's say we agree that the Tories miscalculated under Cameron with the referendum. There has been a ton of criticism of it around the unintended consequences, lack of plan etc. Most of the vitriolic stuff from your preferred PM in waiting, Tim Farron.

So ensuring he is not a hypocrite, what is the plan for each outcome of that policy?

(My guess is - there isn't one and that you will be voting for a hypocrite ).

Well the outcome can only be either we Leave or Remain in the EU. I want the latter, the LibsDems are the only party (in England) offering that chance still, so I'm voting for them. Should a hypothetical referendum on the deal deliver a Leave vote accepting that deal, a LibDem government would implement that result. I differ a bit with the party on that one, I'll then be looking elsewhere.


I'm a bit troubled by the constant demands to "accept" things, which seems to me to imply that dissent should be quoshed. that's not how I understand democracy to work. We don't have to accept anything, that's the whole point. of course, I'd have to live with whatever happens, we all do, but I'd still be entitled to campaign for change. Eurosceptics didn't' just accept EU membership, after all.

It's amusing how the word democracy now means overturning that what was democratically decided.

Exactly.

Democratic decisions that remoaners don't like are now painted as either undemocratic or a far right coup or both. Past, present or future makes no difference.

[SilverSixer]

Burwood said:

SilverSixer said:

Murph7355 said:

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. ....

How do you expect that to pan out though? What do you see as the set of potential outcomes of such a move, and how would you rank them in terms of likelihood (ignoring personal plans)?

Let's say we agree that the Tories miscalculated under Cameron with the referendum. There has been a ton of criticism of it around the unintended consequences, lack of plan etc. Most of the vitriolic stuff from your preferred PM in waiting, Tim Farron.

So ensuring he is not a hypocrite, what is the plan for each outcome of that policy?

(My guess is - there isn't one and that you will be voting for a hypocrite ).

Well the outcome can only be either we Leave or Remain in the EU. I want the latter, the LibsDems are the only party (in England) offering that chance still, so I'm voting for them. Should a hypothetical referendum on the deal deliver a Leave vote accepting that deal, a LibDem government would implement that result. I differ a bit with the party on that one, I'll then be looking elsewhere.


I'm a bit troubled by the constant demands to "accept" things, which seems to me to imply that dissent should be quoshed. that's not how I understand democracy to work. We don't have to accept anything, that's the whole point. of course, I'd have to live with whatever happens, we all do, but I'd still be entitled to campaign for change. Eurosceptics didn't' just accept EU membership, after all.

It's amusing how the word democracy now means overturning that what was democratically decided.

It's not amusing, it is precisely and exactly how democracy works. Otherwise, we'd not be where we are now, the 1970's referendum would still be standing.

How don't you understand this, seriously? You really think democracy means taking a snapshot in time once and forever and no going backsies, and anyone who doesn't like it has to shut up?

This issue was decided by a small majority of some people. Not 100% of all people. We hold General Elections for precisely this reason. Democracy is a process, not a piece of immutable rock which shall never be changed if it's a kind of rock which you and some others find pretty.

I want people to be convinced of my case. That's not "remoaning" or "traitorous" or "bed wetting" or libtard" any other insult I've been subjected to. It's democratic. It's my right in a democratic society. What are you so scared of?

[sidicks]

SilverSixer said:

So far, offering a first referendum on the negotiated Brexit deal is enough to convince me. Obviously won't be for many others, and it also obviously implies the best LibDems can do is oppose the fairly inevitable Tory government.

Once the full manifesto is out, we can discuss it then.

So your support for the Lib Dems is solely to do with Brexit and you don't really have a clue about any of there other policies, yet have the audacity to talk about Brexit leaving the country 'isolated and impoverished' (or words to that effect)/!

SilverSixer said:

I'm a bit disappointed Farron has ruled out coalition, but he's left the door open to a coalition in the case of Corbyn or May not being the leader of their part, so it's not a killer for me.

He's got absolutely no hope of getting anywhere without a Coalition in which he is the junior partner - surely even you can see that?

SilverSixer said:

I'm pretty sure there will be a Tory majority, but there is going to be an unexpected aspect to this election of some kind. How about this for a theory - May and Corbyn both lose their seats? Islington is very Remainy, and so far only a LibDem is standing against him. Gina Miller rumoured to stand in Maidenhead - cat amongst pigeons? Yes, fantasy realms perhaps, but something weird is going to come out of this election.

I prefer to live in the real world.

Edited by sidicks on Monday 24th April 12:34

[ATG]

bmw535i said:

///ajd said:

So anyone posting links without some sort of commentary is "silly".

There is clearly a difference between adding content that is relevant and just throwing insults.

Most I'm sure can see it. I think you probably can too but would prefer to engage in this pointless spat trying to suggest they are the same.

You continue to refuse to engage in sensible debate and instead just continue trotting out hysteria.

You have proved time and time again that you are simply an empty vessel.

Oh, the irony

[turbobloke]

Recent polls put the SNP on track to lose 8 -10 seats to the Tories, Nicola would be pleased and such a result would more than wipe out any expected LibDem gains north of the border. Labour in Scotland is looking more and more like a meltdown. Currently down 6 percentage points on 2015 and likely to end up in fourth spot.

South of the border, Tory gains from Labour are looking like Jezza's worst nightmare.