Snap General Election?
Discussion
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.
t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. Greg66 said:
.......
But the IRA's objective was to get the British out of NI, whereas IS, ISIS or ISIL, or al-whatever doesn't have a "leave us alone" objective; their objective is to export their belief system massively. That's as difficult to negotiate to a standstill as it was difficult to negotiate away Hitler's desire for lebensraum or Japan's territorial expansion ambitions.
So, returning to JC's Big Problem, what is his solution I wonder, because isolationalism isn't going to protect us from further attacks, IMO.
Exactly.But the IRA's objective was to get the British out of NI, whereas IS, ISIS or ISIL, or al-whatever doesn't have a "leave us alone" objective; their objective is to export their belief system massively. That's as difficult to negotiate to a standstill as it was difficult to negotiate away Hitler's desire for lebensraum or Japan's territorial expansion ambitions.
So, returning to JC's Big Problem, what is his solution I wonder, because isolationalism isn't going to protect us from further attacks, IMO.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. How many votes went to Lib Dems on that back of abolishing tuition fees in 2010?
Recent results suggest to me that an electorate can be persuaded into voting a certain way based on promises that may never happen.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. His second
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/tru...
The Hypno-Toad said:
I've seen the poll numbers in overnight and they have me profoundly concerned. How have the Conservatives let a 20 lead slide? I haven't posted much on this thread so far during the campaign but here's my one I made earlier.
1.) Crap manifesto.
The people who want to come away from Labour want something different, exciting. Something that makes it easy to justify their actions to their friends and online.
"Well the Conservatives said they were going to do something about x and Labour didn't mention/have some looney extremist nonsense they made think the Tories were the ones to go for,"
If you're going to change from a party you've voted for 20+ years, you better make sure that you have a good reason. There isn't one to be found in the bland, badly thought out excuse for a manifesto that the Conservatives published so people will be thinking,
"I'll just put my tick in the red box as usual,"
2.) Utter compliancy.
"The polls say we're going to win so why bother?"
Seen any billboards? Many newspaper ads? Does anyone care about Party Political Broadcasts any more?
The Conservatives thought they were just going to steam roller this one without any effort at all. Corbyns a nutjob, some vague idea of a 'coalition of chaos' (which is now rapidly gaining traction.) and that'll do. Now the Labour Party are homing in on Downing Street they are rabbits caught in the headlights and they don't know how to get the votes they thought were safe back because ideas on the internet would appear to be far more popular than slogans on billboard. (well, duh!)
And anyway the old people who don't look much at the internet will always vote for us even if we take their pensions away? Yeah, Corbyns a nutter, won't be a problem.
3.) The Labour Party actually do know what they are doing.
I know shocking isn't it? Concentrate on local issues, not national ones. If you are in an marginal, totally ignore Corbyn. If needs be stand aside for the coalition of chaos. Focus on the special interest groups because they are very angry, very internet savvy and also have people on the ground. Plus there are lots of them. So have a manifesto that can hoover them all up into one big "coalition of chaos,"
4.) Counting on the UKIP vote.
Again they just thought all of that slice of the electorate would just gently swing back round to them with no problems without understanding that these voters have already broken free of three party system and are now totally able to cast their votes on party that suits their needs the best. Again, compliancy.
5.) No real plan about the elephant in the room.
Which of course, is immigration. Talking to everyone I know at work and socially that is the one big concern outside of the economy rightly or wrongly, especially after this weeks events. Nothing concrete, nothing to ease peoples concerns and might tempt Labour voters who are would about this issue. Nothing.
And now we are counting down to the last week and its looking increasingly likely that rather than consigning the Labour Party to the dustbin of history there is a good chance May will have at the very least strengthened their position in Parliament, strengthened Corbyns position hugely and possibly left the door open for the biggest catastrophe & threat to our democracy since the 1970s.
Have the Conservatives learned nothing from Trump, Le Pen and Brexit? The people don't want to be boxed in anymore, they don't trust politicians and in some respects would rather vote in a completely contrary way just to show you that they have the power.
I was very ill ten years ago (won't bore anyone with the details.) and couldn't work. Nearly lost the flat, had to rely on handouts from a charity linked to my illness and some small funding from my family. After I struggled to find a good job. I now have one. In fact its a great job and I'm earning really good money which enables me to buy some small treats which I had to go without for a long time. And now the idea that this petty minded, quick tempered, bombastic, unskilled Communist idiot who has never done a proper days work in his life and lives in a socialist dreamland of milk and honey, could possibly undo all of the hard work that I have done to fight way back to decent life, makes feel totally sick to my stomach.
The thought of him and his cronies with their hands on the levers of power scares me to death & I believe would change the face and the democratic systems of this country beyond recognition. Remember, this is a man would not give up leadership of his party when everyone told him to go. Do you really think he's going to leave Downing Street once he's sent us all to the 70s?
People say he doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he just wants to transform the Labour Party. Anyone who has seen the fire in his eyes when he gets angry, knows that this is total rubbish. This is his time to prove that he is right! Everyone else was always wrong! He will lead us to the promised land and if you don't like it.......
I am very worried because I don't want that man anywhere Number 10. I dread to think what is hidden away behind the manifesto but I certainly don't want to live through it.
This should have been on repeat at CCHQ right from the moment May flicked the switch because they clearly weren't paying attention...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU
Now off to work...
This.....pretty sums up my own feelings.1.) Crap manifesto.
The people who want to come away from Labour want something different, exciting. Something that makes it easy to justify their actions to their friends and online.
"Well the Conservatives said they were going to do something about x and Labour didn't mention/have some looney extremist nonsense they made think the Tories were the ones to go for,"
If you're going to change from a party you've voted for 20+ years, you better make sure that you have a good reason. There isn't one to be found in the bland, badly thought out excuse for a manifesto that the Conservatives published so people will be thinking,
"I'll just put my tick in the red box as usual,"
2.) Utter compliancy.
"The polls say we're going to win so why bother?"
Seen any billboards? Many newspaper ads? Does anyone care about Party Political Broadcasts any more?
The Conservatives thought they were just going to steam roller this one without any effort at all. Corbyns a nutjob, some vague idea of a 'coalition of chaos' (which is now rapidly gaining traction.) and that'll do. Now the Labour Party are homing in on Downing Street they are rabbits caught in the headlights and they don't know how to get the votes they thought were safe back because ideas on the internet would appear to be far more popular than slogans on billboard. (well, duh!)
And anyway the old people who don't look much at the internet will always vote for us even if we take their pensions away? Yeah, Corbyns a nutter, won't be a problem.
3.) The Labour Party actually do know what they are doing.
I know shocking isn't it? Concentrate on local issues, not national ones. If you are in an marginal, totally ignore Corbyn. If needs be stand aside for the coalition of chaos. Focus on the special interest groups because they are very angry, very internet savvy and also have people on the ground. Plus there are lots of them. So have a manifesto that can hoover them all up into one big "coalition of chaos,"
4.) Counting on the UKIP vote.
Again they just thought all of that slice of the electorate would just gently swing back round to them with no problems without understanding that these voters have already broken free of three party system and are now totally able to cast their votes on party that suits their needs the best. Again, compliancy.
5.) No real plan about the elephant in the room.
Which of course, is immigration. Talking to everyone I know at work and socially that is the one big concern outside of the economy rightly or wrongly, especially after this weeks events. Nothing concrete, nothing to ease peoples concerns and might tempt Labour voters who are would about this issue. Nothing.
And now we are counting down to the last week and its looking increasingly likely that rather than consigning the Labour Party to the dustbin of history there is a good chance May will have at the very least strengthened their position in Parliament, strengthened Corbyns position hugely and possibly left the door open for the biggest catastrophe & threat to our democracy since the 1970s.
Have the Conservatives learned nothing from Trump, Le Pen and Brexit? The people don't want to be boxed in anymore, they don't trust politicians and in some respects would rather vote in a completely contrary way just to show you that they have the power.
I was very ill ten years ago (won't bore anyone with the details.) and couldn't work. Nearly lost the flat, had to rely on handouts from a charity linked to my illness and some small funding from my family. After I struggled to find a good job. I now have one. In fact its a great job and I'm earning really good money which enables me to buy some small treats which I had to go without for a long time. And now the idea that this petty minded, quick tempered, bombastic, unskilled Communist idiot who has never done a proper days work in his life and lives in a socialist dreamland of milk and honey, could possibly undo all of the hard work that I have done to fight way back to decent life, makes feel totally sick to my stomach.
The thought of him and his cronies with their hands on the levers of power scares me to death & I believe would change the face and the democratic systems of this country beyond recognition. Remember, this is a man would not give up leadership of his party when everyone told him to go. Do you really think he's going to leave Downing Street once he's sent us all to the 70s?
People say he doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he just wants to transform the Labour Party. Anyone who has seen the fire in his eyes when he gets angry, knows that this is total rubbish. This is his time to prove that he is right! Everyone else was always wrong! He will lead us to the promised land and if you don't like it.......
I am very worried because I don't want that man anywhere Number 10. I dread to think what is hidden away behind the manifesto but I certainly don't want to live through it.
This should have been on repeat at CCHQ right from the moment May flicked the switch because they clearly weren't paying attention...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahkMA6JPOHU
Now off to work...
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Friday 26th May 07:21
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Friday 26th May 07:23
The Conservatives have run an absolutely crap campaign.
They haven't grasped the mettle to put Labour to bed once and for all, and have pretty much taken their lead in the polls for granted.
I've voted Conservative all my adult life, as I remember life under Labour of the '70s....
The manifesto is a shambles and has little appeal to me.
The media fiasco over social care has made me uneasy and the later back tracking just looks incompetent.
Overall a negative campaign based on complacency.
The Labour campaign by comparison has been positive, even though I totally disagree with the spend, spend, tax, tax policies.
I can see Corbyn coming through to win, which we all know will be a total disaster for the country.
The Conservatives will only have themselves to blame for this one.....
Jockman said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. How many votes went to Lib Dems on that back of abolishing tuition fees in 2010?
Recent results suggest to me that an electorate can be persuaded into voting a certain way based on promises that may never happen.
You're right about that though.
Likes Fast Cars said:
W124 said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Lance Catamaran said:
Shame he wasn't so quick to condemn the IRA when they were trying to blow us up
Exactly. Terrorists are terrorists, they don't negotiate, they have no boundaries, and in the case of the current crop of Jihadists they don't give a rat's arse about any war anywhere it's a convenient excuse to try and legitimise their murder and slaughter of others.p1stonhead said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. His second
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/tru...
What intrigues me about the courts' positions on the Exec Order are:
A lot of vociferous public activism by the loud left, most of it hyperbole and opinion.
Hijacking of the agenda as to why (you even wrote it yourself, the "muslim" travel ban), legally this was not the case, the Exec Order did not mention religion as the basis.
The left-leaning tendency of the judges in the states in which the petitions were lodged and the judgements handed down (again a function of the US political system).
Obama enacted the same types of bans TWICE during his presidency, and for more countries than Trump, and nothing was said or done.
W124 said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
W124 said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Lance Catamaran said:
Shame he wasn't so quick to condemn the IRA when they were trying to blow us up
Exactly. Terrorists are terrorists, they don't negotiate, they have no boundaries, and in the case of the current crop of Jihadists they don't give a rat's arse about any war anywhere it's a convenient excuse to try and legitimise their murder and slaughter of others.Likes Fast Cars said:
p1stonhead said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. His second
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/tru...
What intrigues me about the courts' positions on the Exec Order are:
A lot of vociferous public activism by the loud left, most of it hyperbole and opinion.
Hijacking of the agenda as to why (you even wrote it yourself, the "muslim" travel ban), legally this was not the case, the Exec Order did not mention religion as the basis.
The left-leaning tendency of the judges in the states in which the petitions were lodged and the judgements handed down (again a function of the US political system).
Obama enacted the same types of bans TWICE during his presidency, and for more countries than Trump, and nothing was said or done.
Its now gone but it was there not two months ago. Those were his own words. Just because the official bill wasnt called a muslim ban doesnt mean it wasnt an attempt (aklbeit a transparent one because he didnt have his mates Saudi Arabia on it)
He would have done better to cover his tracks but his people are presumably not the brightest are they.
http://www.vocativ.com/412253/trumps-website-musli...
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/03/17/trumps...
He did manage to get to the front of the Nato leaders though so good on him
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 26th May 08:40
p1stonhead said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
p1stonhead said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Jockman said:
Greg66 said:
Corbyn's Big Problem, as I see it, is that his position is a classic opposition one: i.e. 'What is being done is wrong" - full stop. There's no solution that he is offering. He is just saying that the current approach isn't the right solution.
That was neither a problem for Trump, nor for the Brexit 'movement'.t and it doesn't work", but more like: "this is st, I don't agree, here's what I'll do, I don't give a fk, there may be consequences but to hell with it, I'm gonna do it anyway" and he got elected; different to the whining of Corblimey. His second
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/us/politics/tru...
What intrigues me about the courts' positions on the Exec Order are:
A lot of vociferous public activism by the loud left, most of it hyperbole and opinion.
Hijacking of the agenda as to why (you even wrote it yourself, the "muslim" travel ban), legally this was not the case, the Exec Order did not mention religion as the basis.
The left-leaning tendency of the judges in the states in which the petitions were lodged and the judgements handed down (again a function of the US political system).
Obama enacted the same types of bans TWICE during his presidency, and for more countries than Trump, and nothing was said or done.
Its now gone but it was there not two months ago. Those were his own words. Just because the official bill wasnt called a muslim ban doesnt mean it wasnt an attempt (aklbeit a transparent one because he didnt have his mates Saudi Arabia on it)
He would have done better to cover his tracks but his people are presumably not the brightest are they.
http://www.vocativ.com/412253/trumps-website-musli...
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/03/17/trumps...
Edited by p1stonhead on Friday 26th May 08:33
What is also interesting is how the Islamic world generally respect him, the world just gets weirder.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Obama enacted the same types of bans TWICE during his presidency, and for more countries than Trump, and nothing was said or done.
It's much more fun arguing on the internet when you just make things up to suit you, isn't it? Why don't you go fact check yourself and come back when you've done your homework.
FN2TypeR said:
This thread is going to be comedy gold on election night if he wins, 
That would be funny, in a very perverse way. But May has shown herself wanting, trying to appeal to the minority, trying to emulate 'Labour-Lite' and putting off the majority. I have no idea why her government has done this, appealing to Guardianistas who would never vote for her anyway, and alienating the majority who would vote for her!I am not voting for her government this time, I will spoil my ballot paper, all are just shades of awful, AFAIAC
Greg66 said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
Obama enacted the same types of bans TWICE during his presidency, and for more countries than Trump, and nothing was said or done.
It's much more fun arguing on the internet when you just make things up to suit you, isn't it? Why don't you go fact check yourself and come back when you've done your homework.
Likes Fast Cars said:
FN2TypeR said:
This thread is going to be comedy gold on election night if he wins,
Gees...... I hope not! fk that, and anyway if that happens people will be too busy packing their bags to get out before the lights go out and the place becomes a backwater.TBH I actually do wonder how much - if at all - worse it could be under Corbyn. My biggest fear from him are defence cuts and the reduction in our abilty to project power, but aside from that it might actually be better. Despite having a conservative government our tax burden is f
king immense; myself and the OH earn decent money (over six figures between us), no kids, homeowners and we get taxed highly on incomes, council tax (through the roof for ever less services), monstrous VAT, IPT blah blah it goes on and on and on. For this I get my bins emptied once every three weeks, the roads are falling apart, there are just no police at all, I have to pay for prescriptions, dental etc.
I mean really - how much worse can it get, because right now it's s
t.It's so crap I'm actually wondering if trying something utterly different might work.
Anyroadup, I'll be voting for Simon Danczuk who Labour has deselected and who is standing as an independent.
And no, I'm not some leftie - I actually have a framed photo of The Sainted Lady Margaret Thatcher on my office wall, but the way I am beginning to see this is that I'm seeing absolutely f
k all for my tax burden, so while I'm not right keen on Corbyn winning I really cannot see how he can make it any worse.chris watton said:
FN2TypeR said:
This thread is going to be comedy gold on election night if he wins,
That would be funny, in a very perverse way. But May has shown herself wanting, trying to appeal to the minority, trying to emulate 'Labour-Lite' and putting off the majority. I have no idea why her government has done this, appealing to Guardianistas who would never vote for her anyway, and alienating the majority who would vote for her!I am not voting for her government this time, I will spoil my ballot paper, all are just shades of awful, AFAIAC
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