Snap General Election?
Discussion
snuffy said:
There is certainly a huge difference between the younger and older generations.
Those retired now have lived though the good times. And as a result have done exceptionally well. But that has given them a massive sense of entitlement. Ask any retired person about their pension or care costs and the answer is always the same : I paid for it, so I'm entitled to it. Wrong, or, at least, half wrong; They paid for it, but they were charged a pittance for it.
So now they expect to be looked after. But there is not enough money. So who has to pay ? The younger generations.
So therefore you can certainly see why young people are not happy; the old have it all and on top of that the old expect the young to pay for them. The young are getting shafted.
Which brings me to May's massive error of judgement; she's told the old they can't go on like this for ever. And the old hate that. So now traditional older Tory voters are worried the good times might be coming to an end.
That is why there's been a huge shift in the polls away.
Give over.Those retired now have lived though the good times. And as a result have done exceptionally well. But that has given them a massive sense of entitlement. Ask any retired person about their pension or care costs and the answer is always the same : I paid for it, so I'm entitled to it. Wrong, or, at least, half wrong; They paid for it, but they were charged a pittance for it.
So now they expect to be looked after. But there is not enough money. So who has to pay ? The younger generations.
So therefore you can certainly see why young people are not happy; the old have it all and on top of that the old expect the young to pay for them. The young are getting shafted.
Which brings me to May's massive error of judgement; she's told the old they can't go on like this for ever. And the old hate that. So now traditional older Tory voters are worried the good times might be coming to an end.
That is why there's been a huge shift in the polls away.
Young people saying old people are greedy has been happening since the dawn of time! It is nothing new.
It is why armies were created -- rich old men pay young poor men to stop young poorer men stealing their wealth.
And it is why Labour has such strong youth support and why the party was created -- to steal wealth from old rich people and give it for free to young poor people.
The UK state pension is way below the EU average and is in the lowest third among all of the EU.
Young folk need to stop the victimhood mentality, pull their finger out, and get some work done. Life is never easy.
Evanivitch said:
chris watton said:
Quite! I have just turned 50 and remember well the 'Community Action Programme' I was put into because I left school without qualifications. No free money back then, we were expected o earn our £25 per week by working on community projects, painting schools etc., we were even given training for different skills that set most of us up for a life of working. Nothing was given to us for free, we have to earn every penny.
So 25 quid in 1987 is about 67 quid equivalent today. You might get a council house too. And as you say you gained skills too.Today, under the age of 24 you'd get up 58 quid and lucky to get a council house too. You might get a placement stacking shelves or warehouse work, but you'd be lucky to gain much more in terms of skills.
I think most people would appreciate the chance to gain skills and earn more money in the process...
https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/free
http://free2learn.org.uk/
https://www.futurelearn.com/
It's an odd thought though...surely the younger generation grabbed all the free education they were most definitely given and which was theirs to take? Then beyond that they've worked hard and smart in whatever employment they found, right? We're now enjoying record high levels of employment unlike previous generations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/15/emp...
Regards the Tory campaign I think they are in danger of repeating Brexit. Just trying to scare people Corbyn will be a disaster won't cut it. Labour are preaching hope even though it's based on shaky economics (and a shifty leader). Tories need to start putting forward a vision for their government and the post Brexit future. This needs to be based on core Tory values such as supporting businesses and investment. Regards young people of today, there is a way to earn and learn skills, its called an apprenticeship. I followed the path in engineering at 16 and have worked bloody hard. I have never been given/won/inherited a penny. Everything I own I've earned and I don't owe a penny to anyone. I probably don't earn the kinds of salaries of alot of people on PH but I've changed jobs maybe 5 times always to progress my career in engineering. It served me ok and this government has actually invested heavily in new apprentice training facilities (I work with one).
Yipper said:
Give over.
Young people saying old people are greedy has been happening since the dawn of time! It is nothing new.
It is why armies were created -- rich old men pay young poor men to stop young poorer men stealing their wealth.
And it is why Labour has such strong youth support and why the party was created -- to steal wealth from old rich people and give it for free to young poor people.
The UK state pension is way below the EU average and is in the lowest third among all of the EU.
Young folk need to stop the victimhood mentality, pull their finger out, and get some work done. Life is never easy.
You're completely missing the point of what people are talking about.Young people saying old people are greedy has been happening since the dawn of time! It is nothing new.
It is why armies were created -- rich old men pay young poor men to stop young poorer men stealing their wealth.
And it is why Labour has such strong youth support and why the party was created -- to steal wealth from old rich people and give it for free to young poor people.
The UK state pension is way below the EU average and is in the lowest third among all of the EU.
Young folk need to stop the victimhood mentality, pull their finger out, and get some work done. Life is never easy.
Young people will find it harder to afford a house or decent retirement than the generations before them. My generation have it better than my children's. My dads had it better than me. His dad's had it far worse during the war.
It's simply a function of rising house prices clamp downs on lending and lower pay and worse conditions in the work place.
It hasn't always been the way and it's not about young people calling older people greedy. It's about hard working young people with worse pensions and less ability to buy property being expected to pay for (hard working) older people who had better property and better pensions.
Moonhawk said:
El stovey said:
Those young people simply won't be willing to pay for your/our retirement.
What is the answer though.If the younger generations aren't willing to pay for retirement for an older generation who 'had it better', but at the same time are opposed to the older generation contributing via their assets - because it'll reduce any inheritance they may get - then we have a catch 22 situation.
Somebody has to pay.
If some within the older generations have benefited from massive house price rises, final salary pensions, earlier retirement ages etc - then surely the answer is for this older generation to put some of these gains back in to help reduce the burden on the younger generation who don't have access to these types of opportunities any more (especially those in the private sector).
snuffy said:
I'm talking as someone who's not far off 50 thinking about those just starting work. There is no victimhood mentality.
El stovey said:
Those young people simply won't be willing to pay for your/our retirement.
Steps are already being taken to address the state pension ponzi scheme and willing or not, this process is all they'll get. Of course payment will continue.Apart from anything else, tax isn't hypothecated, nobody gets to choose what their taxes are used for.
They won't get to decide at the ballot box as they'll be out-voted.
Or was your post hinting at a) Wolfie Smith revolution b) compulsory geronticide c) both?
turbobloke said:
snuffy said:
I'm talking as someone who's not far off 50 thinking about those just starting work. There is no victimhood mentality.
El stovey said:
Those young people simply won't be willing to pay for your/our retirement.
Steps are already being taken to address the state pension ponzi scheme and willing or not, this process is all they'll get. Of course payment will continue.Apart from anything else, tax isn't hypothecated, nobody gets to choose what their taxes are used for.
They won't get to decide at the ballot box as they'll be out-voted.
Or was your post hinting at a) Wolfie Smith revolution b) compulsory geronticide c) both?
Policies that now might target the high earners or top 5 percent etc might be aimed squarely at old people in big houses on good pensions and the younger generation will be right up for it.
Garvin said:
They are. The bank of M&D is now a very significant contributor to their offspring's housing. Plenty also paid for their offspring's university tuition fees and accommodation/living expenses.
So it's swings and roundabouts then.The older generation 'had it better' - but are now passing that benefit on to the younger generation via the bank of mum and dad.
Had the older generation not had it 'so good' they would be less able to do this.
El stovey said:
It's a numbers game. In the future when the majority of people are on worse pensions and working conditions, government policies to get more money from the elderly will be much more likely to be politically acceptable.
I agree it's a numbers game but which numbers? In terms of the number of voters, the elderly win every time, by a ratio of 2:1 for over 65s compared to 18-24 year-olds as one example.El stovey said:
Policies that now might target the high earners or top 5 percent etc might be aimed squarely at old people in big houses on good pensions and the younger generation will be right up for it.
Might indeed, but such policies from a Party can only be enacted if that Party is in office, see above.The trend to later retirement will continue, as will payment of the state pension from taxation.
More changes are ahead but not as suggested.
turbobloke said:
El stovey said:
It's a numbers game. In the future when the majority of people are on worse pensions and working conditions, government policies to get more money from the elderly will be much more likely to be politically acceptable.
I agree it's a numbers game but which numbers? In terms of the number of voters, the elderly win every time, by a ratio of 2:1 for over 65s compared to 18-24 year-olds as one example.El stovey said:
Policies that now might target the high earners or top 5 percent etc might be aimed squarely at old people in big houses on good pensions and the younger generation will be right up for it.
Might indeed, but such policies from a Party can only be enacted if that Party is in office, see above.The trend to later retirement will continue, as will payment of the state pension from taxation.
More changes are ahead but not as suggested.
It's what I expect will happen with property and tax and other wealth inequality reducing measures that will be aimed at well off retired people.
Monty Python said:
What's your view about famous people saying "vote for X" - I've noticed Dave Gilmour asking people to vote Labour - frankly he's hardly someone who's going to be affected much by the outcome.
After what his idiot f
king son did, he should keep his mouth shut when it comes to politics.Monty Python said:
What's your view about famous people saying "vote for X" - I've noticed Dave Gilmour asking people to vote Labour - frankly he's hardly someone who's going to be affected much by the outcome.
Famous people (you are clearly showing your age there, the term is celeb 
) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative". The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
snuffy said:
Famous people (you are clearly showing your age there, the term is celeb ) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative".
The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
Polymath and reknowned thinker of our time, Jim Davidson.) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative". The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
chris watton said:
Quite! I have just turned 50 and remember well the 'Community Action Programme' I was put into because I left school without qualifications. No free money back then, we were expected o earn our £25 per week by working on community projects, painting schools etc., we were even given training for different skills that set most of us up for a life of working. Nothing was given to us for free, we have to earn every penny.
At the time, I hated Thatcher for this, but after a while, I understood why this was done, it instilled a real work ethic in most of us.
To this day, there hasn't been any one of us on these schemes that have ever been out of work, you have to earn the money to get things you want in life, what an old fashioned notion that seems to be now, when I see whole flats filled with young people who have never worked, yet we have to import labour because our own will not work, thus doubling the burden on our social services from health to accommodation. I guess partly to do with generous state handouts and the 'victim' mentality we no have to suffer.
And they say the older generation are a burden on the state, a lot of whom have worked for 40-50 years paying their way!
The issue is a lot of older people (just as many as younger people sit around doing nothing, At the time, I hated Thatcher for this, but after a while, I understood why this was done, it instilled a real work ethic in most of us.
To this day, there hasn't been any one of us on these schemes that have ever been out of work, you have to earn the money to get things you want in life, what an old fashioned notion that seems to be now, when I see whole flats filled with young people who have never worked, yet we have to import labour because our own will not work, thus doubling the burden on our social services from health to accommodation. I guess partly to do with generous state handouts and the 'victim' mentality we no have to suffer.
And they say the older generation are a burden on the state, a lot of whom have worked for 40-50 years paying their way!
) retired early with protected pensions. So they have worked maybe 40 (50 would be working from 15-65 year olds) years, yet think it's unfair they don't get their pension for another 40 years. So yes, they have worked and paid in money, but expect to be covered for the same amount of time they have worked to be retired. In addition if they bought a house they have made huge amounts of money off of nothing more than buying a house. Which young people are paying for by buying these houses, while also paying for 40 years of pensions to older people knowing they will not get the same back in the future. Both in the length of pension payments, the amount and the protection of future payments. Plus currently pensions increase at more than inflation or wage rise - so pensioners are gaining even more off young people.So old people did work hard, but the system was not updated as it should to make sure they didn't end up with loads extra. Which is why we are here. And yes, young people could do a lot better with spending, but when you combine the major things in life (jobs - taken over by computers/robots, house prices and pensions) then it's somewhat understandable they don't much point in the traditional life just to pay for older people's retirement and houses.
snuffy said:
Famous people (you are clearly showing your age there, the term is celeb ) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative".
The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
This was covered a bit earlier when discussing social media.) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative". The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
I suspect it's because if you aren't seen to be supporting Corbyn, you hate children, the old and the disabled.
I'd not be surprised if they are encouraged by their management to publicly support Corbyn/Labour to improve their image. I bet not all of them actually vote for him, though.
Celebrities are like politicians, they promote their image as one thing, but their actual personality and motives are an entirely different thing.
Edited by Slagathore on Saturday 27th May 16:03
snuffy said:
Monty Python said:
What's your view about famous people saying "vote for X" - I've noticed Dave Gilmour asking people to vote Labour - frankly he's hardly someone who's going to be affected much by the outcome.
Famous people (you are clearly showing your age there, the term is celeb ) only every say vote Labour. Or vote Remain, or vote Clinton. No one famous ever comes out and says "vote Conservative". The question is: Why ? How come celebrity endorsements are only ever left wing ? (and I know someone will be along in a minute to give me an example of someone famous saying vote Tory).
All the press Corbyn bashing seems to be having the same effect here as it did in the states with trump. Pull away from the press and it's all mainly pro labour on social media.
Are the Tories even running an election campaign this time around. It really is piss poor.
Are the Tories even running an election campaign this time around. It really is piss poor.
Edited by bazza white on Saturday 27th May 15:43
PurpleMoonlight said:
But they are continuing to pay don't forget.
"We've paid our taxes, so we're owed it."I saw some figures a while back, and those in the older generation will get out something like 120%, could be more, of what they've paid in tax as benefits. For the younger generation, it'll be around 80%.
I don't know what the solution is. The uncapped liability on care costs was an attempt to tap into the huge amount of untaxed wealth held by pensioners.
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