Snap General Election?
Discussion
FN2TypeR said:
cookie118 said:
Is it though? A quick search throws up these from previous threads:
"Yup, and the Germans will bend over backwards to ensure they still have full access to treasure island"
"The EU (esp Germany) will not cut its nose to spite its face, commerce will prevail"
"It appears that business common sense and pragmatism will prevail"
It's certainly the impression the brexiteers were and have been giving.
Well three of them anyway, providing that those quotes are lifted from three individual source and not one person"Yup, and the Germans will bend over backwards to ensure they still have full access to treasure island"
"The EU (esp Germany) will not cut its nose to spite its face, commerce will prevail"
"It appears that business common sense and pragmatism will prevail"
It's certainly the impression the brexiteers were and have been giving.
The goalposts have been shifted.
FiF said:
The thing that sinks his theory is the assumption that Leave equalled Conservative, Remain equalled everyone else.
Elections are a little more complicated than just one policy (i.e. Brexit.) Setting aside politics it appears to me that Corbyn has simply outperformed May on pubic engagement since the election was announced. That was probably a good thing for democracy in the UK that elections not be a foregone conclusion. The sooner the public get to the ballot boxes the better for the Conservatives. They may wish to consider the question of parliamentary leadership very carefully before entering another election even if they manage to hold on to a majority now.
As for Corbyn well...he did better politically than most would have expected given the Labour party have spent the last couple of years embroiled in internal struggles.
MaxSo said:
Amber Rudd to appear at the leaders debate because May is too busy keeping it old skool, talking to real people.
I'll say it again, she's a nervous wreck.
I'll say it again, far better to have a nervous leader with credible policies than a terrorist sympathiser with policies that make no economic sense.I'll say it again, she's a nervous wreck.
HTH
speedy_thrills said:
FiF said:
The thing that sinks his theory is the assumption that Leave equalled Conservative, Remain equalled everyone else.
Elections are a little more complicated than just one policy (i.e. Brexit.) Setting aside politics it appears to me that Corbyn has simply outperformed May on pubic engagement since the election was announced. That was probably a good thing for democracy in the UK that elections not be a foregone conclusion. The sooner the public get to the ballot boxes the better for the Conservatives. They may wish to consider the question of parliamentary leadership very carefully before entering another election even if they manage to hold on to a majority now.
As for Corbyn well...he did better politically than most would have expected given the Labour party have spent the last couple of years embroiled in internal struggles.
MaxSo said:
Amber Rudd to appear at the leaders debate because May is too busy keeping it old skool, talking to real people.
I'll say it again, she's a nervous wreck.
You can say it as many times as you like. What is your point though? Is it as shallow as we should all vote for the best performing person in front of a camera/audience with total disregard for actual competence, credible policies and what the person really stands for?I'll say it again, she's a nervous wreck.
If you want a Marxist who is determined to bring down the capitalist state (with no credible vision for an alternative), who supports terrorist activities to do so, is woefully ignorant on basic finances, will leave the country defenceless and will bankrupt the country in a re run of the 70s with a team that includes the intellectual giants such as Abbott, Rayner and fellow committed Marxist McDonnell then fine, vote for Labour and try and get Corbyn into power. It's what democracy is about.
Voting for the best 'celeb' is just puerile.
speedy_thrills said:
FiF said:
The thing that sinks his theory is the assumption that Leave equalled Conservative, Remain equalled everyone else.
Elections are a little more complicated than just one policy (i.e. Brexit.) Setting aside politics it appears to me that Corbyn has simply outperformed May on pubic engagement since the election was announced. That was probably a good thing for democracy in the UK that elections not be a foregone conclusion. The sooner the public get to the ballot boxes the better for the Conservatives. They may wish to consider the question of parliamentary leadership very carefully before entering another election even if they manage to hold on to a majority now.
As for Corbyn well...he did better politically than most would have expected given the Labour party have spent the last couple of years embroiled in internal struggles.
PurpleMoonlight said:
What credible policies is that?
Fashionable to dismiss the Tory manifesto because of one political unpalatable policy (care)Things I liked in the Tory manifesto
Scrapping the triple-lock on the state pension after 2020, replacing it with a "double lock", rising with earnings or inflation-no reason for the wealthiest section of society to enjoy the biggest rise in benefits. The remaining commitment still ensures that the state pension will not fall behind wages.
Means test winter fuel payments, taking away £300 from wealthier pensioners-why exactly are we paying this to rich pensioners to start with?
Increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000 by 2020-to continue to reduce the tax burden on medium earners.
Ensure foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services
Legislate to make executive pay packages subject to strict annual votes by shareholders-shareholders own the company, management are their employees.
Increase the National Living Wage to 60% of median earnings by 2020-one of the only ways to break the low productivity spiral we are in.
Ensure people working in the 'gig' economy are properly protected-if you are effectively a employee you should have the rights of one.
Change the law to ensure listed companies nominate a director from the workforce, create a formal employee advisory council or assign specific responsibility for employee representation to a designated non-executive director
Develop the shale industry in Britain
Non-fracking drilling treated as permitted development-developing shale is essential for energy security and costs.
Meet 2015 commitment to deliver a million homes by the end of 2020 and half a million more by the end of 2022-if delivered a very important policy
JagLover said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
What credible policies is that?
Fashionable to dismiss the Tory manifesto because of one political unpalatable policy (care)Things I liked in the Tory manifesto
Scrapping the triple-lock on the state pension after 2020, replacing it with a "double lock", rising with earnings or inflation-no reason for the wealthiest section of society to enjoy the biggest rise in benefits. The remaining commitment still ensures that the state pension will not fall behind wages.
Means test winter fuel payments, taking away £300 from wealthier pensioners-why exactly are we paying this to rich pensioners to start with?
Increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000 by 2020-to continue to reduce the tax burden on medium earners.
Ensure foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services
Legislate to make executive pay packages subject to strict annual votes by shareholders-shareholders own the company, management are their employees.
Increase the National Living Wage to 60% of median earnings by 2020-one of the only ways to break the low productivity spiral we are in.
Ensure people working in the 'gig' economy are properly protected-if you are effectively a employee you should have the rights of one.
Change the law to ensure listed companies nominate a director from the workforce, create a formal employee advisory council or assign specific responsibility for employee representation to a designated non-executive director
Develop the shale industry in Britain
Non-fracking drilling treated as permitted development-developing shale is essential for energy security and costs.
Meet 2015 commitment to deliver a million homes by the end of 2020 and half a million more by the end of 2022-if delivered a very important policy
Corporation Tax to fall to 17% by 2020.
A boundary review / reduce the number of MPs to 600.
Lift the ban on new selective schools with provision put in place to ensure pupils can join at other ages as well as 11.
Develop the strategic road network, including extra lanes on motorways and improving key routes.
No increase in the level of VAT.
JagLover said:
Fashionable to dismiss the Tory manifesto because of one political unpalatable policy (care)
Things I liked in the Tory manifesto
Scrapping the triple-lock on the state pension after 2020, replacing it with a "double lock", rising with earnings or inflation-no reason for the wealthiest section of society to enjoy the biggest rise in benefits. The remaining commitment still ensures that the state pension will not fall behind wages.
Means test winter fuel payments, taking away £300 from wealthier pensioners-why exactly are we paying this to rich pensioners to start with?
Increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000 by 2020-to continue to reduce the tax burden on medium earners.
Ensure foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services
Legislate to make executive pay packages subject to strict annual votes by shareholders-shareholders own the company, management are their employees.
Increase the National Living Wage to 60% of median earnings by 2020-one of the only ways to break the low productivity spiral we are in.
Ensure people working in the 'gig' economy are properly protected-if you are effectively a employee you should have the rights of one.
Change the law to ensure listed companies nominate a director from the workforce, create a formal employee advisory council or assign specific responsibility for employee representation to a designated non-executive director
Develop the shale industry in Britain
Non-fracking drilling treated as permitted development-developing shale is essential for energy security and costs.
Meet 2015 commitment to deliver a million homes by the end of 2020 and half a million more by the end of 2022-if delivered a very important policy
Are pensioners really the wealthiest section in society? The state pension is not a benefit, its an entitlement base on NI history.Things I liked in the Tory manifesto
Scrapping the triple-lock on the state pension after 2020, replacing it with a "double lock", rising with earnings or inflation-no reason for the wealthiest section of society to enjoy the biggest rise in benefits. The remaining commitment still ensures that the state pension will not fall behind wages.
Means test winter fuel payments, taking away £300 from wealthier pensioners-why exactly are we paying this to rich pensioners to start with?
Increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000 by 2020-to continue to reduce the tax burden on medium earners.
Ensure foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services
Legislate to make executive pay packages subject to strict annual votes by shareholders-shareholders own the company, management are their employees.
Increase the National Living Wage to 60% of median earnings by 2020-one of the only ways to break the low productivity spiral we are in.
Ensure people working in the 'gig' economy are properly protected-if you are effectively a employee you should have the rights of one.
Change the law to ensure listed companies nominate a director from the workforce, create a formal employee advisory council or assign specific responsibility for employee representation to a designated non-executive director
Develop the shale industry in Britain
Non-fracking drilling treated as permitted development-developing shale is essential for energy security and costs.
Meet 2015 commitment to deliver a million homes by the end of 2020 and half a million more by the end of 2022-if delivered a very important policy
What is deemed wealthier and therefore to lose the winter fuel payment?
The personal allowance is not new, it was committed to in 2015. They have chosen to u-turn on the promise not to increase NI & income tax though.
NLW is already more than 60% of average earnings I believe, what is median earning?
Is the Government actually going to build these homes, and who are they for?
JagLover said:
I didn't say they became a burden on the state at 58 (though unlikely to be paying much if any tax if they have retired) I said they could expect to spend 30 years in retirement if they retired at 58 and at current life expectancies they can expect to live for 26 on average.
You do know that Income Tax isn't the only tax they we pay don't you? Edited by JagLover on Saturday 27th May 18:51
turbobloke said:
Likewise, to which I would add:
Corporation Tax to fall to 17% by 2020.
A boundary review / reduce the number of MPs to 600.
Lift the ban on new selective schools with provision put in place to ensure pupils can join at other ages as well as 11.
Develop the strategic road network, including extra lanes on motorways and improving key routes.
No increase in the level of VAT.
CT reduction already announced so not new.Corporation Tax to fall to 17% by 2020.
A boundary review / reduce the number of MPs to 600.
Lift the ban on new selective schools with provision put in place to ensure pupils can join at other ages as well as 11.
Develop the strategic road network, including extra lanes on motorways and improving key routes.
No increase in the level of VAT.
No increase in VAT was committed in 2015 for 5 years, but they are u-turning on tax and NI.
JagLover said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
What credible policies is that?
Fashionable to dismiss the Tory manifesto because of one political unpalatable policy (care)Things I liked in the Tory manifesto
Scrapping the triple-lock on the state pension after 2020, replacing it with a "double lock", rising with earnings or inflation-no reason for the wealthiest section of society to enjoy the biggest rise in benefits. The remaining commitment still ensures that the state pension will not fall behind wages.
Means test winter fuel payments, taking away £300 from wealthier pensioners-why exactly are we paying this to rich pensioners to start with?
Increase the personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate to £50,000 by 2020-to continue to reduce the tax burden on medium earners.
Ensure foreign ownership of companies controlling important infrastructure does not undermine British security or essential services
Legislate to make executive pay packages subject to strict annual votes by shareholders-shareholders own the company, management are their employees.
Increase the National Living Wage to 60% of median earnings by 2020-one of the only ways to break the low productivity spiral we are in.
Ensure people working in the 'gig' economy are properly protected-if you are effectively a employee you should have the rights of one.
Change the law to ensure listed companies nominate a director from the workforce, create a formal employee advisory council or assign specific responsibility for employee representation to a designated non-executive director
Develop the shale industry in Britain
Non-fracking drilling treated as permitted development-developing shale is essential for energy security and costs.
Meet 2015 commitment to deliver a million homes by the end of 2020 and half a million more by the end of 2022-if delivered a very important policy
But hey according to some I'm just a selfish old boomer partly because they want to start house ownership in something akin to that it took their own parents decades to achieve. Slightly jaundiced and combative view there admittedly, but it's my opinion from numerous observations.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Are pensioners really the wealthiest section in society? The state pension is not a benefit, its an entitlement base on NI history.
It's clearly a benefit, and most people have not paid anywhere near enough to fund the pensions they will take out.PurpleMoonlight said:
What is deemed wealthier and therefore to lose the winter fuel payment?
Those with wealth above an agreed (arbitrary) threshold - the same as many other forms of tax.PurpleMoonlight said:
The personal allowance is not new, it was committed to in 2015. They have chosen to u-turn on the promise not to increase NI & income tax though.
What changes to NIC and income tax are they proposing??PurpleMoonlight said:
NLW is already more than 60% of average earnings I believe, what is median earning?
Really?!PurpleMoonlight said:
Is the Government actually going to build these homes, and who are they for?
You want names?FiF said:
The thing that sinks his theory is the assumption that Leave equalled Conservative, Remain equalled everyone else.
In reality the L Vs R argument clearly did not break down on party lines like that. However his belief says more about his own prejudices than anything else.
I'm not talking voters here, I'm talkign campaigns-The Conservatives seemed to base their early election campaign on the idea that they were the only party ready to deliver Brexit. Their election campaign has been run on the basis that they are the 'strong and stable' choice for the country and they've relied heavily on Brexit for that. It's not my assumption-it's the conservative party line!In reality the L Vs R argument clearly did not break down on party lines like that. However his belief says more about his own prejudices than anything else.
FiF said:
Even if you want to make those associations, then what about all the Remain arguments which have been subsequently proven to be a load of rubbish, or predictions of immediate dire events. Could we be forgiven for saying well we shouldn't believe that shower either?
I'm not denying that could be the case-in fact it's that point that I was replying to earlier. However if you want to say that businesses/economists etc cried wolf over the negative effects of Brexit and it means they might not be believed when it comes to Labour, I think the converse is also true.You can't deny that some Brexiteers made it seem like Brexit was going to be very easy. The negotiations would all go our way, even if not we'd do fine with no deal etc. So now the Tories are saying that it's actually going to be difficult and we need their 'strong and stable' leadership for it.They are very much positioning themselves as the party to deliver Brexit. Do you not think that some people might believe the earlier predictions that it'll be a cakewalk and vote for another party?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff