Should remainers vote for the Libs?

[///ajd]

Hayek said:

citizensm1th said:

In 1975 we had a referendum to join the eec which due to our various governments agreement became the eu as you well know

Crap butism

No we didn't, in 1975 we had a referendum to remain in the EEC. We joined the EEC without a referendum in (IIRC) 1973. I have a feeling it wasn't in Ted Heath's manifesto either.

So you are saying it was a referendum after we'd already decided to be in the EEC, and whether we'd leave instead.

So as we've already decided to leave the EU now, another referendum about whether to stay after all would be like the 1975 vote?

I'm not suggesting another ref, but just showing that the "butism" is - as pointed about above - rather weak.

[Zod]

don'tbesilly said:

Such Leave voters exist do they?

I've never seen such a 'want' written on PH, and never seen such a 'want' expressed anywhere else.
Perhaps you could give your post some credence, or I'd suggest ///ajd knows your log in details, which were it me would give me grave concerns.

Don't take it personally, man! They are out there. I have heard and seen them interviewed; people who think that there will suddenly be no more Poles.

[B'stard Child]

Zod said:

don'tbesilly said:

Such Leave voters exist do they?

I've never seen such a 'want' written on PH, and never seen such a 'want' expressed anywhere else.
Perhaps you could give your post some credence, or I'd suggest ///ajd knows your log in details, which were it me would give me grave concerns.

Don't take it personally, man! They are out there. I have heard and seen them interviewed; people who think that there will suddenly be no more Poles.

Ahh yes - of course the BBC's std Post Brexit opinion piece find the most narrow minded retard from an area that voted leave and repeat the same interview as many times as they can technique - of course they aren't interested in the opinions of anyone except the ones that they can find that suits their narrative........

A shame that it appears to have sucked you into thinking that they form a large part of the population that voted leave

[amusingduck]

Bill said:

crankedup said:

I have never said that 'I don't want a discussion'. What I have said is that the terms of the referendum did not include a second vote or. revisit on the terms and conditions agreed with the eu. I agree discussion is good and interesting but will not change anything that the Government deems a 'done deal'.

It looks like you won't entertain discussion. The referendum didn't include terms for a second vote, but didn't preclude it. If enough people want a further vote, or the government offer it, then that's democracy surely.

Personally I suspect the more vocally anti further referendum or parliamentary votes aren't pro-democracy but pro getting their own way.

Lets assume that another referendum is held, and Remain wins this time.

Then what?

Best of 3?

Keep going til you get the same result twice in a row?

No more referendums because the 'right' verdict has been reached?

[Bill]

amusingduck said:

Lets assume that another referendum is held, and Remain wins this time.

Then what?

Best of 3?

Keep going til you get the same result twice in a row?

No more referendums because the 'right' verdict has been reached?

It would probably stop when the government are happy with the result.

But no one is offering another vote on leaving per se. The discussion is about the terms.

[Bill]

crankedup said:

Nothing further that I can add to what I have already said without repeating myself. But if you begin thinking that referendums and elections are merely openers I am sorry to say you will be disappointed. Far to many folks disappointed the referendum outcome has gone against thier wishes seem unable to accept the inevitable. We are out of the eu, it's only a matter of getting the best deal.
Mob rule is not the answer.

So one referendum isn't mob rule, but another is?

I fully accept the result. I voted remain despite my reservations for pragmatic reasons because leaving imo isn't worth the pain. YMclearlyV.

Say the Tories get an increased majority, and get and accept a deal where they keep the four freedoms to save (say) the FS industry and fisheries, paying a less into the pot, ditching the ECJ and EU laws. Will you accept that?

[amusingduck]

Bill said:

amusingduck said:

Lets assume that another referendum is held, and Remain wins this time.

Then what?

Best of 3?

Keep going til you get the same result twice in a row?

No more referendums because the 'right' verdict has been reached?

It would probably stop when the government are happy with the result.

But no one is offering another vote on leaving per se. The discussion is about the terms.

Jolly good.

This government is happy with the result, the next one will be too

[Bill]

amusingduck said:

This government is happy with the result, the next one will be too

I'm not sure Cameron (remember him?!?) was.

[so called]

Bill said:

amusingduck said:

This government is happy with the result, the next one will be too

I'm not sure Cameron (remember him?!?) was.

I think that the result was exactly what he wanted.

[Bill]

Really? How so? He campaigned for in, or do you think it was a cunning bluff?

[crankedup]

Bill said:

crankedup said:

Nothing further that I can add to what I have already said without repeating myself. But if you begin thinking that referendums and elections are merely openers I am sorry to say you will be disappointed. Far to many folks disappointed the referendum outcome has gone against thier wishes seem unable to accept the inevitable. We are out of the eu, it's only a matter of getting the best deal.
Mob rule is not the answer.

So one referendum isn't mob rule, but another is?

I fully accept the result. I voted remain despite my reservations for pragmatic reasons because leaving imo isn't worth the pain. YMclearlyV.

Say the Tories get an increased majority, and get and accept a deal where they keep the four freedoms to save (say) the FS industry and fisheries, paying a less into the pot, ditching the ECJ and EU laws. Will you accept that?

Oh come on!!! comparing 'mob rule' with a democratic referendum.

I'm not going to speculate on the outcome of our leaving deal with the eu. What I can say is that the eu legislation will remain in our Country and those regulations and laws which we deem surplus or u warranted will be withdrawn. That much has been stated by our Government.

[Zod]

B'stard Child said:

Ahh yes - of course the BBC's std Post Brexit opinion piece find the most narrow minded retard from an area that voted leave and repeat the same interview as many times as they can technique - of course they aren't interested in the opinions of anyone except the ones that they can find that suits their narrative........

A shame that it appears to have sucked you into thinking that they form a large part of the population that voted leave

I'm not sure that I either said that or anything that could be interpreted as meaning that.

[Bill]

crankedup said:

Oh come on!!! comparing 'mob rule' with a democratic referendum.

I agree, but you brought it up. A further referendum or parliamentary vote wouldn't be mob rule.

[Sticks.]

Bill said:

It would probably stop when the government are happy with the result.

What, like Scottish devolution?

[ou sont les biscuits]

Sticks. said:

Bill said:

It would probably stop when the government are happy with the result.

What, like Scottish devolution?

We already have devolution. Do you mean Independence?

[blindswelledrat]

Justayellowbadge said:

blindswelledrat said:

I disagree. I think if Brexit isn't the rosy future people imagine, they will blame circumstance and remainers. I don't think anything imaginable could happen to make the average Brexit voter think that they made the wrong choice.

I'd say the 'average brexit voter' is probably still in wait and see mode.

People talk about brexiteers and remainers as if there are simply two tribes, diametrically opposed.

I suspect about 80% of the population are clustered around a centre point with 10% outlyiing on either side - it's the minority making all the noise.

Interesting thought, and perhaps true. It has made me think that I might be guilty of seeing the vocal Brexiters as average Brexiters when they aren't at all.
Then again, I don't feel like it is a subject like any other where people gather around the centre point as per your description. People are far more in one camp or the other, or so it seems. I don't know now though. Certainly food for thought.

[B'stard Child]

blindswelledrat said:

Justayellowbadge said:

blindswelledrat said:

I disagree. I think if Brexit isn't the rosy future people imagine, they will blame circumstance and remainers. I don't think anything imaginable could happen to make the average Brexit voter think that they made the wrong choice.

I'd say the 'average brexit voter' is probably still in wait and see mode.

People talk about brexiteers and remainers as if there are simply two tribes, diametrically opposed.

I suspect about 80% of the population are clustered around a centre point with 10% outlyiing on either side - it's the minority making all the noise.

Interesting thought, and perhaps true. It has made me think that I might be guilty of seeing the vocal Brexiters as average Brexiters when they aren't at all.

Just as some on here are just as guilty of seeing vocal remainers as average remainers

It's different in the real world

blindswelledrat said:

Then again, I don't feel like it is a subject like any other where people gather around the centre point as per your description. People are far more in one camp or the other, or so it seems. I don't know now though. Certainly food for thought.

My summary/opinion is the vast majority of people accepted the result of the referendum in June last year, it's done, the country decided, so now crack on with it because uncertainty is as bad as no deal.

On the polarised NP&E the perspective is skewed as the major contributors to this and many other threads on the subject are the ones are still vocal on the subject rather than are extreemist.

Now it may well be that remainers that still claim "leave won with lies" wind up the leavers who respond with the "lies of remain" - the "big red bus" gets a mention but is balanced by "punishment budgets and WWIII".

Slasher manages in every thread to turn the whole thing into leavers were and still are racist or xenophobic and the whole thing kicks off again.

So the noise in here is intense but doesn't represent the outside world.

Occasionally the odd person will pop in and say I voted remain and I'm sorry the result was leave but I do wish the government would get on with it and they represent the majority of people that voted remain IMO.

[herewego]

Are there people here who voted remain but now think the government should get on with getting out?

[Smollet]

herewego said:

Are there people here who voted remain but now think the government should get on with getting out?

Me for one but I was a borderline remainer

[footnote]

herewego said:

Are there people here who voted remain but now think the government should get on with getting out?

Perhaps they would have been thinking that, when it appeared that there was no other option, but TM has essentially offered another referendum masquerading as an election which will give many Remainers a lot of hope that the referendum result can be undone.