Brexit related recession?

[B'stard Child]

Jimboka said:

I expect Boris & co will be spouting similar nonsense when their actions start to hurt their beloved Brexiteers (I guess it will all be those nasty Eoropeans fault somehow)

You've got your irish passport - please use it

[AC43]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But why, exactly? I've lived in the same area for 29 years and it's a bit busier then it was in 1998 but so what? I genuinely scratch my head about what people are bothered about. If it's busier there's more economic activity which pays more taxes. How is this a bad thing?

[nadger]

Likes Fast Cars said:

cookie118 said:

PH XKR said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

PH XKR said:

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Of course, Britain hasn't benefitted from being part of the EU at all either!

At a cost.

A negative cost

Bombadier - Derby, lost contract after Germans secretly funded Simens to run a bid at a loss
Rover - Needed govt intervention for support, illegal under EU rules, Rover bust. BMW, Porsche, VAG, PSA all supported by illegal loans. French never intended to pay loans back.

Britain has applied the EU rules the most rigorously over the years and it has been to our loss.

Yes and it keeps on going. Add Areva to that list...... another French fiasco

Oddly, Slasher an the other remainers seem to be avoiding this dirty little fact.

Is it fact though?

Again-any sources or evidence to back up the assertion above or the assertion about Siemens and the automakers?

Evidence? Read the papers. There is currently a massive concern over the EdF deal as Areva is one of the suppliers, they are fking up big time with massive over-runs on other nuclear projects. Whenever Areva is mentioned so are French government bail-outs they have been given (State Aid). This is just one example, but it's one with which I'm very well acqauinted.

Auto-makers have the subject for a number of years, again a lot press out there especially when investment decisions were being made for new production lines and factories.

Ok, I must admit I don't know enough about it to comment on it. However what I don't understand is it's relevance to BREXIT? Whether we're in or out of the EU this will still carry on surely? In fact, if it's a hard Brexit and trade tariffs are introduced, wouldn't if potentially make life even easier for some of the areas outlined above, as costs of comparable British made goods would be higher, reducing the need to subsidise?

[PH XKR]

What brexit means is that should an industry, such as rover, needed support, we could give it.

The EU made it illegal, the others did it. PSA should have folded years back. Sncf cheap rail, how? Etc

[anonymous-user]

Likes Fast Cars said:

Evidence? Read the papers. There is currently a massive concern over the EdF deal as Areva is one of the suppliers, they are fking up big time with massive over-runs on other nuclear projects. Whenever Areva is mentioned so are French government bail-outs they have been given (State Aid). This is just one example, but it's one with which I'm very well acqauinted.

Auto-makers have the subject for a number of years, again a lot press out there especially when investment decisions were being made for new production lines and factories.

It's no use going 'well everyone knows this' and not putting a link to anything.

If it's widely reported in the papers then surely it must be easy to back up PH-XKR's assertion that Siemens received an illegal loan that enabled them to outbid bombardier? I've had a look and can't find anything. Can you?

The same with automakers-can you find evidence of illegal state aid being given to psa for example?

And I've had a look and yes areva have been not so great financially-but again can you supply any evidence of illegality relating to state aid here?

Otherwise it just looks like stuffs being made up.

[Likes Fast Cars]

PH XKR said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Gordon "Goldie" Brown and his massive screw-up in shorting the gold reserves when prices were kicking around at the bottom end of the price curve

I did, a few pages back but at least you are almost up to speed. Is it 2006 there

PH XKR said:

But, but, but, under labour during the growth time we were given working tax credits. These are not like benfits, they don't make people into benefits addicts and they certainly don't help companies to force wages down at the cost of the tax payer subsidising them. Also under Labour we didn't sell off assets at a loss by announcing a mass sale directly ahead of selling off said assets nor did we see an invasive introduction of poorly managed private investment initiatives in local schooling and health. Also under labour we saw very little in the way of two illegal wars or the abandonment of the military covenant nor did we see the UK sign away its rights under an EU treaty that was renamed to avoid the question of a referendum, nor did we sign away our important veto's.

The tory bds.

Bugger it - I knew I'd probably missed that one, that'll teach me to go out on a Sunday when I should be reading PH threads!

Yeah Turkey is now trying to get back to where it was in 1923 under Ataturk (as one of my mates told me last week after the 3rd bottle of red wine), 2006 would be bloody progress in this place.
(& I probably need to update the car for a bit more speed....)

[Likes Fast Cars]

nadger said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

cookie118 said:

PH XKR said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

PH XKR said:

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Of course, Britain hasn't benefitted from being part of the EU at all either!

At a cost.

A negative cost

Bombadier - Derby, lost contract after Germans secretly funded Simens to run a bid at a loss
Rover - Needed govt intervention for support, illegal under EU rules, Rover bust. BMW, Porsche, VAG, PSA all supported by illegal loans. French never intended to pay loans back.

Britain has applied the EU rules the most rigorously over the years and it has been to our loss.

Yes and it keeps on going. Add Areva to that list...... another French fiasco

Oddly, Slasher an the other remainers seem to be avoiding this dirty little fact.

Is it fact though?

Again-any sources or evidence to back up the assertion above or the assertion about Siemens and the automakers?

Evidence? Read the papers. There is currently a massive concern over the EdF deal as Areva is one of the suppliers, they are fking up big time with massive over-runs on other nuclear projects. Whenever Areva is mentioned so are French government bail-outs they have been given (State Aid). This is just one example, but it's one with which I'm very well acqauinted.

Auto-makers have the subject for a number of years, again a lot press out there especially when investment decisions were being made for new production lines and factories.

Ok, I must admit I don't know enough about it to comment on it. However what I don't understand is it's relevance to BREXIT? Whether we're in or out of the EU this will still carry on surely? In fact, if it's a hard Brexit and trade tariffs are introduced, wouldn't if potentially make life even easier for some of the areas outlined above, as costs of comparable British made goods would be higher, reducing the need to subsidise?

It was raised earlier on, the topic / comment was along the lines of why does the UK rigourously and without exception stick to the EU rules of not subsidising companies; one more reason to depart the EU especially France and Germany are doing it. That's the general gist of how this got into a Brexit thread.

[Likes Fast Cars]

cookie118 said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

Evidence? Read the papers. There is currently a massive concern over the EdF deal as Areva is one of the suppliers, they are fking up big time with massive over-runs on other nuclear projects. Whenever Areva is mentioned so are French government bail-outs they have been given (State Aid). This is just one example, but it's one with which I'm very well acqauinted.

Auto-makers have the subject for a number of years, again a lot press out there especially when investment decisions were being made for new production lines and factories.

It's no use going 'well everyone knows this' and not putting a link to anything.

If it's widely reported in the papers then surely it must be easy to back up PH-XKR's assertion that Siemens received an illegal loan that enabled them to outbid bombardier? I've had a look and can't find anything. Can you?

The same with automakers-can you find evidence of illegal state aid being given to psa for example?

And I've had a look and yes areva have been not so great financially-but again can you supply any evidence of illegality relating to state aid here?

Otherwise it just looks like stuffs being made up.

Starter for 10:

https://miningawareness.wordpress.com/2016/08/11/e...

Now bugger off and let me get on with running the electricity network for a few minutes will you? Thanks

PS: It still hurts my shares in ALSTOM tanked years ago, that's what you call payback for years of loyal service to that Anglo-French "success story" (not).

[nadger]

PH XKR said:

What brexit means is that should an industry, such as rover, needed support, we could give it.

The EU made it illegal, the others did it. PSA should have folded years back. Sncf cheap rail, how? Etc

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

[sidicks]

nadger said:

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

[speedy_thrills]

We've had a fantastic bull market run since '09 in most economies, it will come to an end at some point of course but that's normal cyclical economics. As long as BoE has room to operate and the government can take a hit to tax receipts without slashing at spending the UK should be fine as an economy.

In terms of the bifurcation of haves and have nots I'm no expert on how the government or the wider electorate might react.

[Likes Fast Cars]

sidicks said:

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Gets back to that old chestnut, the USA isn't in the EU and they do quite OK. As does China, Australia, .....

[turbobloke]

Likes Fast Cars said:

sidicks said:

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Gets back to that old chestnut, the USA isn't in the EU and they do quite OK. As does China, Australia, .....

Some people just want hand-holding by Nanny EU and (apparently) can't even imagine what would happen without nanny to cling to. The point that nanny is a dysfunctional spendthrift megalomaniac who is prepared to harm her children in plain sight to protect her own interests is also (apparently) neither here nor there. There's nowt as strange as folk.

[andy43]

Likes Fast Cars said:

cookie118 said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

Evidence? Read the papers. There is currently a massive concern over the EdF deal as Areva is one of the suppliers, they are fking up big time with massive over-runs on other nuclear projects. Whenever Areva is mentioned so are French government bail-outs they have been given (State Aid). This is just one example, but it's one with which I'm very well acqauinted.

Auto-makers have the subject for a number of years, again a lot press out there especially when investment decisions were being made for new production lines and factories.

It's no use going 'well everyone knows this' and not putting a link to anything.

If it's widely reported in the papers then surely it must be easy to back up PH-XKR's assertion that Siemens received an illegal loan that enabled them to outbid bombardier? I've had a look and can't find anything. Can you?

The same with automakers-can you find evidence of illegal state aid being given to psa for example?

And I've had a look and yes areva have been not so great financially-but again can you supply any evidence of illegality relating to state aid here?

Otherwise it just looks like stuffs being made up.

Starter for 10:

https://miningawareness.wordpress.com/2016/08/11/e...

Now bugger off and let me get on with running the electricity network for a few minutes will you? Thanks

PS: It still hurts my shares in ALSTOM tanked years ago, that's what you call payback for years of loyal service to that Anglo-French "success story" (not).

Quick google - PSA here - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-757_en....

[PH XKR]

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Anyone remember the adverts "Slam in the Lamb"? Anyone wonder why we don't really see NZ lamb any more? EU. This is a world that was fairly recently open to us.

[Likes Fast Cars]

PH XKR said:

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Anyone remember the adverts "Slam in the Lamb"? Anyone wonder why we don't really see NZ lamb any more? EU. This is a world that was fairly recently open to us.

Lamb - the only decent thing to come out of the Shaky Isles.

[jjlynn27]

PH XKR said:

Anyone remember the adverts "Slam in the Lamb"? Anyone wonder why we don't really see NZ lamb any more? EU. This is a world that was fairly recently open to us.

http://www.waitrose.com/shop/Browse/Groceries/Fres...

That big bad EU. You should explain to Waitrose that they are not allowed to import lamb from NZ anymore.

Edited by jjlynn27 on Monday 24th April 14:14

[MarshPhantom]

PH XKR said:

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Anyone remember the adverts "Slam in the Lamb"? Anyone wonder why we don't really see NZ lamb any more? EU. This is a world that was fairly recently open to us.

Why does it make more sense to pay to import lamb from the other side of the world rather than the other side of the channel?

[sidicks]

MarshPhantom said:

Why does it make more sense to pay to import lamb from the other side of the world rather than the other side of the channel?

Why does it make sense not to have the choice?

[turbobloke]

MarshPhantom said:

PH XKR said:

sidicks said:

nadger said:

Ok, so we leave our largest single trading partner (who have apparently been breaking EU rules on subsidy, I have to bow to your greater knowledge on that score) which COULD theoretically limit our trading base. It would allow governmental intervention, yes, but how would it be funded if we're limiting our trading opportunities?

We aren't limiting our trading opportunities - you do know that there's a whole world outside of the EU?

Anyone remember the adverts "Slam in the Lamb"? Anyone wonder why we don't really see NZ lamb any more? EU. This is a world that was fairly recently open to us.

Why does it make more sense to pay to import lamb from the other side of the world rather than the other side of the channel?

Is that a comment on a long lost common market or the EU?

To avoid enduring the EU's megalomania and serial failure we could always import from Mars once a colony with sheep is established.