Petition open for citizens to vote for EU Passports
Discussion
///ajd said:
Its all too evident many brexiteers don't care about it at all.
Some do.
Its interesting to see how as well as not seeing the point themselves, many are very eager to deny that right to others.
There's a pretty big difference between denying people the right to live and work in a country and denying people the automatic right to live and work in a country. Your conflation of the two is as tedious as it is predictable.Some do.
Its interesting to see how as well as not seeing the point themselves, many are very eager to deny that right to others.
jsf said:
A passport does more than just allowing you to pass through borders. It provides the holder the protection of the issuing state if required, that includes both political, legal and military arms of the issuing state as and when required.
Great, so I could get an Irish passport (for which I am eligible) and then rely on the might and influence of Ireland to protect me. Think I'll pass on that, thanks.bloomen said:
I really well and truly can't see how this would ever be workable. I dearly hope it would be as my only other hope of becoming European again is an independent Scotland in the EU which is equally pie in the sky.
A passport to give you all the rights of being in the EU without actually being in the EU. Pie in the sky as you say. Of course if one has no valuable skills or the wit to get a visa you could just take the well worn path of a place in Cyprus or Malta, they'll give you a 'proper' EU passport for a few thousand yuan or roubles.Edited by bloomen on Monday 24th April 00:11
fblm said:
A passport to give you all the rights of being in the EU without actually being in the EU. Pie in the sky as you say. Of course if one has no valuable skills or the wit to get a visa you could just take the well worn path of a place in Cyprus or Malta, they'll give you a 'proper' EU passport for a few thousand yuan or roubles.
I'm far too lazy, stupid and poor for any of those options. I just want to wash up wherever I feel like washing up and linger without impediment. 
t the bed!
FN2TypeR said:
...
Unfettered travel in our world of nation states and borders is a privilege, not a right.
...
This a million times over.Unfettered travel in our world of nation states and borders is a privilege, not a right.
...
It would seem some are letting their sense of entitlement and/or selfishness get the better of them.
If you have something to offer, countries the world over including in Europe will accept you with open arms. If you don't, why should they.
We currently 'pay' for our 'EU Passport' by reciprocating on the 4 freedoms to the rest of the EU, accepting the rule of EU courts and parliament over our own and in part by contributing to the EU budget. Effectively leavers say it's not worth it and remainers say it is. Going forward we probably won't be reciprocating on the automatic right to live and work in the UK, won't be accepting the supremacy of the EU court or parliament and won't be contributing to the EU budget. So if the freedom to automatically live, work (and vote?) in the EU are so great, how much would people be prepared to pay, out their own pocket, for the privilege?
fblm said:
I don't see why the EU couldn't issue a passport. The issue would be getting other countries to recognise it. I don't imagine in the current environment the US would.
But wouldn't a UK citizen carry on using a UK passport to enter normal countries, and only use the EU passport for access to the EU bloc?///ajd said:
Sign up to support in the link below.
http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/ini...
Subject matter:
Guaranteeing European citizens free movement by a Universal Instrument
Main objectives:
For the better functioning of a free market, in the interest of the Union and in order to comply with the duty of care towards all its citizens, we beg the Commission to delineate a method by which all Europeans of good standing may be granted a signal & permanent instrument of their status and of their right to free movement throughout the Union by way of a unified document of laissez-passer as permitted by Article (4) of Council Regulation 1417/2013, or by another method
Only 17,000 signatures so far, so some way to go.
Note - there is no guarantee this will provide a solution for UK citizens post brexit, but it could be a useful vehicle.
Doesn't a regular passport do this anyhow?? Seems a pointless thing to want and ask for. Red tape, wasted money, extra hassle and no real world gains.http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/ini...
Subject matter:
Guaranteeing European citizens free movement by a Universal Instrument
Main objectives:
For the better functioning of a free market, in the interest of the Union and in order to comply with the duty of care towards all its citizens, we beg the Commission to delineate a method by which all Europeans of good standing may be granted a signal & permanent instrument of their status and of their right to free movement throughout the Union by way of a unified document of laissez-passer as permitted by Article (4) of Council Regulation 1417/2013, or by another method
Only 17,000 signatures so far, so some way to go.
Note - there is no guarantee this will provide a solution for UK citizens post brexit, but it could be a useful vehicle.
Greg66 said:
Craigyp79 said:
jsf said:
The EU is not a country.
In order to issue a passport, you have to be recognised as a country.
Nope, wrong.In order to issue a passport, you have to be recognised as a country.
Puggit said:
fblm said:
I don't see why the EU couldn't issue a passport. The issue would be getting other countries to recognise it. I don't imagine in the current environment the US would.
But wouldn't a UK citizen carry on using a UK passport to enter normal countries, and only use the EU passport for access to the EU bloc?bloomen said:
I really well and truly can't see how this would ever be workable. I dearly hope it would be as my only other hope of becoming European again is an independent Scotland in the EU which is equally pie in the sky.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th April 00:11
Here we go again, confusing the EU with Europe. You are European, living in a European Country.
We're not leaving Europe, we're leaving the EU.
Murph7355 said:
FN2TypeR said:
...
Unfettered travel in our world of nation states and borders is a privilege, not a right.
...
This a million times over.Unfettered travel in our world of nation states and borders is a privilege, not a right.
...
It would seem some are letting their sense of entitlement and/or selfishness get the better of them.
If you have something to offer, countries the world over including in Europe will accept you with open arms. If you don't, why should they.
I find the world view you're describing depressing. Different traditions and cultures; that's all great. But hiding "our stuff" behind borders and bureaucractically picking and choosing who may or may not come in and what they may or may not do when they get here? If we could find a way of avoiding that, if we could find a way to give individuals greater freedom uninhibited by government and bureaucracy, isn't that an end in itself? Shouldn't that be our default position? Shouldn't we only choose to restrict movement if we absolutely have to?
On a purely practical note, I don't know of a single immigration system that is anything other than an absolutely monumental ballache to negotiate for both employers and employees. Why anyone would want to build that rigidity into their labour market, if it could easily be avoided, I can't imagine. The idea that "if you have the skills, it won't make any difference" is risible. Try relocating a UK employee to the USA. Try relocating an Indian employee to the UK. These systems are a fantastic example of the friction that creates de facto barriers to economic activity.
ATG said:
Entitlement and selfishness has nothing to do with it.
I find the world view you're describing depressing. Different traditions and cultures; that's all great. But hiding "our stuff" behind borders and bureaucractically picking and choosing who may or may not come in and what they may or may not do when they get here? If we could find a way of avoiding that, if we could find a way to give individuals greater freedom uninhibited by government and bureaucracy, isn't that an end in itself? Shouldn't that be our default position? Shouldn't we only choose to restrict movement if we absolutely have to?
Are the EU planning on providing freedom of movement from non-EU countries? If not, why not?I find the world view you're describing depressing. Different traditions and cultures; that's all great. But hiding "our stuff" behind borders and bureaucractically picking and choosing who may or may not come in and what they may or may not do when they get here? If we could find a way of avoiding that, if we could find a way to give individuals greater freedom uninhibited by government and bureaucracy, isn't that an end in itself? Shouldn't that be our default position? Shouldn't we only choose to restrict movement if we absolutely have to?
ATG said:
On a purely practical note, I don't know of a single immigration system that is anything other than an absolutely monumental ballache to negotiate for both employers and employees. Why anyone would want to build that rigidity into their labour market, if it could easily be avoided, I can't imagine. The idea that "if you have the skills, it won't make any difference" is risible. Try relocating a UK employee to the USA. Try relocating an Indian employee to the UK. These systems are a fantastic example of the friction that creates de facto barriers to economic activity.
We manage to recruit individuals from outside of the EU as and when we need them.Edited by sidicks on Monday 24th April 18:39
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