Social Justice Syndrome: ‘Rising Tide of Personality Disorde

[Kermit power]

Nanook said:

Kermit power said:

Except their votes, which, in this country, has been allowing them to hold far more power than they should for years!

Pardon?

Their votes should be worth less? You shouldn't be allowed to vote beyond a certain age.

Obviously, that's not what you meant, but can you explain what you did mean?

ATG was claiming that the pensioners would lose and suffer if their interests diverged from those of the rest of the population because they have nothing to bargain with, but this is clearly complete bunkum.

If you're not aware of the phenomenon, just google the Grey Vote. Whilst there are, of course, pensioners who vote for all parties, they are also unique in terms of having a broad swathe of benefits that they can all access, unlike during their working lives, and this causes a distortion in the vote.

The Tories, for example, can take steps to control working benefits relatively easily because very few of their core working age voters or potential voters actually claim benefits. Start trying to control retirement age benefits, however, and they're hitting a big part of their core vote as well as a big part of the Labour vote. Where any given policy affecting working age people will see a swing of people going in both directions, when they hit pensioners, they are far more likely to go one way only, and that is in the direction of defending pensioner rights.

We're now at a point where the current generation in power is voting in fewer rights for themselves in retirement, because they can see that those rights are completely unsustainable, yet they still can't reduce the benefits for those already in receipt of them because of the power of the grey vote, and with an ageing population, the situation is only going to get more polarised.

How you go about solving the problem is a tricky one, of course. For every pensioner sitting in their massive family home enjoying a ludicrously generous pension which their contributions never came close to funding, there is another in rented accommodation surviving on the State pension alone, so it's difficult to take blanket action. I've no idea what the solution is, but I do think one is needed.

[anonymous-user]

Wot Kermit said. You can probably add a decade of those under retirement age to the same grey vote. Change is already coming though, at least to the private sector in the form of the lifetime limit.... it'll only get worse imo

[Goaty Bill 2]

MrBrightSi said:

I do struggle to understand where this envy of achievement and this want to hamstring those who do well comes from.
I do have young cousins in their mid teens who are more to the right and hold conservative views in regards to achievments, personal responsiblity and what not, i just can't figure out how my group of 25-30's are especially desperate to blame everything on others and spout such stupidity like "it's those rich greedy tories fault" when they're living an anchored life of kids had too young, in an area with plenty of low skilled workers and not many low skilled jobs. Yet they cannot see that they're making a tidy earning off the backs of other people just for having some sprogs but still blame the people funding their lifestyle for their piss poor choices.

It won't answer all your questions, but read 'The Road to Wigan Pier' by Orwell. It should have you spitting Marxist nails within 50 pages, and by the time you've finished you will have hammered your plough shears into a Hammer and Sickle and back into plough shears again as Orwell returns you to sanity in his second part essay.
It is however difficult to wash away the taste of filthy iniquity that existed at the time.

Read Tolstoy and Dostoevsky and see if you don't cry for the plight of the serfs and poor middle class under the yoke of czarist Russia that was still but very slowly improving in the early 20th century.
Hugo's Les Misérables includes heart breaking episodes in the lives of average French commoners (yes you may feel actual pity for the French! )

It is not so difficult to see where the need and desire for a solution comes from historically.
Nor how the hatred and distrust is ingrained into culture and the way of thinking.

Of course, to choose an ideology (complete with a detailed economic theory) written by a man who didn't work a day in his life just might not be the best choice one could have made in hindsight.

It's not that Marx and Engels didn't have plenty of things to feel aggrieved about (on behalf of others); probably more that for all their written works and association with other socialists, they lived in a constant echo chamber, arguing over minutia while failing to see the fundamental flaws in their theories.


For a tremendous example of how the socialists eventually eat themselves tail first, one simply needs to refer to any decent factual recounting of the Spanish civil war, where the various socialist groups fought amongst each other over the details of their ideologies while the communists picked them off, eventually weakening the entire socialist/communist revolutionary cause to the point of inevitable failure.
That is not to ignore the effects of German and Italian Fascists support for Franco, but that is not the point being made.

[MrBrightSi]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

MrBrightSi said:

I do struggle to understand where this envy of achievement and this want to hamstring those who do well comes from.
I do have young cousins in their mid teens who are more to the right and hold conservative views in regards to achievments, personal responsiblity and what not, i just can't figure out how my group of 25-30's are especially desperate to blame everything on others and spout such stupidity like "it's those rich greedy tories fault" when they're living an anchored life of kids had too young, in an area with plenty of low skilled workers and not many low skilled jobs. Yet they cannot see that they're making a tidy earning off the backs of other people just for having some sprogs but still blame the people funding their lifestyle for their piss poor choices.

It won't answer all your questions, but read 'The Road to Wigan Pier' by Orwell. It should have you spitting Marxist nails within 50 pages, and by the time you've finished you will have hammered your plough shears into a Hammer and Sickle and back into plough shears again as Orwell returns you to sanity in his second part essay.
It is however difficult to wash away the taste of filthy iniquity that existed at the time.

Read Tolstoy and Dostoevsky and see if you don't cry for the plight of the serfs and poor middle class under the yoke of czarist Russia that was still but very slowly improving in the early 20th century.
Hugo's Les Misérables includes heart breaking episodes in the lives of average French commoners (yes you may feel actual pity for the French! )

It is not so difficult to see where the need and desire for a solution comes from historically.
Nor how the hatred and distrust is ingrained into culture and the way of thinking.

Of course, to choose an ideology (complete with a detailed economic theory) written by a man who didn't work a day in his life just might not be the best choice one could have made in hindsight.

It's not that Marx and Engels didn't have plenty of things to feel aggrieved about (on behalf of others); probably more that for all their written works and association with other socialists, they lived in a constant echo chamber, arguing over minutia while failing to see the fundamental flaws in their theories.


For a tremendous example of how the socialists eventually eat themselves tail first, one simply needs to refer to any decent factual recounting of the Spanish civil war, where the various socialist groups fought amongst each other over the details of their ideologies while the communists picked them off, eventually weakening the entire socialist/communist revolutionary cause to the point of inevitable failure.
That is not to ignore the effects of German and Italian Fascists support for Franco, but that is not the point being made.

Thanks for the reading list, always like a good excuse to read more Orwell, the last paragraph was something i had seen in his essays with the one on his time during the Spanish civil war, Animal Farm is another great example of socialism eating itself too, well i suppose Animal Farm was written as an allegory for that period of time in his life.

[anonymous-user]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

...socialists eventually eat themselves tail first...

What is genuinely amazing is that despite catastrophic failure after catastrophic failure there are still muppets who think we should all give it another try.

[Goaty Bill 2]

MrBrightSi said:

Thanks for the reading list, always like a good excuse to read more Orwell, the last paragraph was something i had seen in his essays with the one on his time during the Spanish civil war, Animal Farm is another great example of socialism eating itself too, well i suppose Animal Farm was written as an allegory for that period of time in his life.

Apologies, there was no intent to imply that you hadn't read / don't read
I will endeavour to phrase that sort of 'advice' better in the future.

Indeed an allegory for Stalinist Russia, but I would suggest that Animal Farm was more how communism/Marxism (or any other totalitarianism or theft of rights) can sneak up on you when you're not paying attention. Each step seems reasonable, yet the end result is the same.
Rather apt given nature of the article in the OP.

Indeed one might make use of the well know Orwellian quote at the end of that book when comparing the SJW or 'antifa' with an actual fascist.

For the benefit of those who's memory may have dimmed, or not have a copy to hand;
"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was which."

[Goaty Bill 2]

fblm said:

Goaty Bill 2 said:

...socialists eventually eat themselves tail first...

What is genuinely amazing is that despite catastrophic failure after catastrophic failure there are still muppets who think we should all give it another try.

A certain generation or two grew up surrounded by it, lived in daily fear of it's reach (that was no phobia), and watched each regime fail for the same fundamental reasons, and thank God / good fortune / the lottery of birth place, that we didn't get caught in it directly.

But "that wasn't real communism! If I had been in charge..."

[Goaty Bill 2]

SJW leftist extremist self-cannibalism continues unabated

Bye bye, Bernie: He’s not fit to captain the Democratic ship if he can’t stop chasing the great white male

[MrBrightSi]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

MrBrightSi said:

Thanks for the reading list, always like a good excuse to read more Orwell, the last paragraph was something i had seen in his essays with the one on his time during the Spanish civil war, Animal Farm is another great example of socialism eating itself too, well i suppose Animal Farm was written as an allegory for that period of time in his life.

Apologies, there was no intent to imply that you hadn't read / don't read
I will endeavour to phrase that sort of 'advice' better in the future.

Indeed an allegory for Stalinist Russia, but I would suggest that Animal Farm was more how communism/Marxism (or any other totalitarianism or theft of rights) can sneak up on you when you're not paying attention. Each step seems reasonable, yet the end result is the same.
Rather apt given nature of the article in the OP.

Indeed one might make use of the well know Orwellian quote at the end of that book when comparing the SJW or 'antifa' with an actual fascist.

For the benefit of those who's memory may have dimmed, or not have a copy to hand;
"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was which."

No offence was taken and i hadn't thought of it as some kind of order. It was an honest reply and i am grateful of some suggestions of books i've missed out on.

[anonymous-user]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

SJW leftist extremist self-cannibalism continues unabated

Bye bye, Bernie: He’s not fit to captain the Democratic ship if he can’t stop chasing the great white male

Your previous phrase of eating themselves tail first is perfect. They have total faith in their own bizarre opinions to the exclusion of all others, like a sad Socialist Taliban

[scherzkeks]

fblm said:

Goaty Bill 2 said:

SJW leftist extremist self-cannibalism continues unabated

Bye bye, Bernie: He’s not fit to captain the Democratic ship if he can’t stop chasing the great white male

Your previous phrase of eating themselves tail first is perfect. They have total faith in their own bizarre opinions to the exclusion of all others, like a sad Socialist Taliban

It isn't really self-cannibalism though. Bernie is not a modern Dem. The complaints lodged against Sanders in this article bolster the fact that there is a lot of crossover between Sanders supporters and Libertarians who voted Trump or who purposefully abstained from voting.

This group is the true middle -- folks who recognize the phoniness of the SJW crowd, and who loathe the neoliberals and neoconservatives who are selling the country down the river via the politics of globalization, as well as profiting from endless war.

Bernie caved, and I have no doubt he deeply regrets it.

[paulmakin]

None of the traits referred to in the article qualify "sufferers" for the diagnosis.

From the DSM - essential features of all PD's :

"D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not better understood as
normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or sociocultural
environment."

paul

[Goaty Bill 2]

scherzkeks said:

fblm said:

Goaty Bill 2 said:

SJW leftist extremist self-cannibalism continues unabated

Bye bye, Bernie: He’s not fit to captain the Democratic ship if he can’t stop chasing the great white male

Your previous phrase of eating themselves tail first is perfect. They have total faith in their own bizarre opinions to the exclusion of all others, like a sad Socialist Taliban

It isn't really self-cannibalism though. Bernie is not a modern Dem. The complaints lodged against Sanders in this article bolster the fact that there is a lot of crossover between Sanders supporters and Libertarians who voted Trump or who purposefully abstained from voting.

This group is the true middle -- folks who recognize the phoniness of the SJW crowd, and who loathe the neoliberals and neoconservatives who are selling the country down the river via the politics of globalization, as well as profiting from endless war.

Bernie caved, and I have no doubt he deeply regrets it.

If I understand your position; i.e. Bernie isn't really 'their own tail' so to speak, because their agenda is considerably more SJW neo-Marxist extremism, then I accept your point.

Using the archetypical image of a serpent eating it's own tail, this would be more like the serpent shedding it's skin, or a bigger serpent about to consume the smaller serpent.

While no fan of the last two Democratic presidents by any stretch, if the Democrats see this as their future, we can probably expect a full eight years of The Donald, and Ain't Nobody got time for that!

[scherzkeks]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

If I understand your position; i.e. Bernie isn't really 'their own tail' so to speak, because their agenda is considerably more SJW neo-Marxist extremism, then I accept your point.

Partially. There is a weird thing going on now where we've got Marxism merging with predatory capitalism and globalism, and masses of individuals who seem entirely unconscious of it.

Goaty Bill 2 said:

While no fan of the last two Democratic presidents by any stretch, if the Democrats see this as their future, we can probably expect a full eight years of The Donald, and Ain't Nobody got time for that!

Also no fan of Obama or Clinton, and I have little doubt that we will indeed have a full 8 years of The Donald.

[caelite]

Digga said:

When all the pensioners want to sell-up or downsize property at once - as the baby boomers inevitably must - and the generations following them cannot afford to gear-up to buy enough of these homes, there will be interesting things happen to the property market.

I do partly agree the millennials have been dealt a bit of a st deal. Property is hugely expensive - buy or rent - and the education system many of them went through was fked up by a government that imaged we'd all work in IT or some other service sector, when, in fact, the real science and engineering qualifications were still needed and now imported in many cases. However, the millennials are guilty of compounding their own mess, by insisting on everything being perfect - new cars, foreign holidays, new furniture - and the lack of compromise and make do and mend is a definite element.

Honestly I think this conception is a part of the problem. I was born in the early 90s so I believe I am a millennial. I do know some of my peers who are in the situation which adheres to the PH stereotype, with white leased Audi A3s, biannual holidays to the continent & a small to medium sized flat all to there own. However, bar one (a lad I know who has made a large amount of cash through an online business he started at 18), every single one of my peers in this type of situation is wholey funded by the 'bank of mum & dad'. I really don't feel that you can really count that, the rest of us who aren't lucky enough to have wealthy folks are stuck with 10-15 year old bangers, weekend tenting in the hills & sharing a rented flat with 2 or 3 friends.

One could argue that our 00s 10-15 year old banger is considerably better than your 70s 10-15 year old banger, and that an easyjet to Spain+1star hotel is considerably cheaper nowadays than caravanning to Yorkshire was in the 80s but these points are neither here nor there, from an objective, statistical standpoint based in economic positions it is more difficult for those of gen Y to get a good start in life than gen X or boomers, partly due to government action, party to global economics and, yes, partly due to the misappropriation of skills (yes, B-Arts students). This can be overcome by luck and effort but objectively it is becoming more difficult.

Personally I can't see a solution to this, no party wishes to represent the young because it will lose them votes, the young don't vote because they are idiots (sorry was naive the word I am supposed to use?). My only hope is that in the future enough of the smart ones migrate elsewhere that the powers that be eventually realise how much of a massive problem they are creating. If recent statistics about STEM graduates are to be believed this may come sooner rather than later. Selfishly I am just hoping Australia keeps its doors long enough for me to finish my mech engineering degree so I can get out there!