Young woman shot by Police in terrror op.

[Greendubber]

Smiler. said:

Greendubber said:

MarshPhantom said:

Hainey said:

bhstewie said:

Derek Smith said:

To return to the topic: at the moment the news is that two terror operations appear to have been thwarted by the police. I would have thought that this would be a reason to rejoice, even for this most anti-police ranters. But I've been proved wrong.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't Derek.

I must admit I do wonder what some people are on when they appear to let their personal prejudices of the Police cloud their judgement over what would look to be a job very well done.

Hear Hear.

The country is under a threat level that the IRA would have given anything to achieve 30 years ago and yet certain elements find any reason to downplay the achievements of the Police and intelligence services in how well they have thwarted these cells so far.

Constrictive Critisism is one thing, what we see from some outlets is quite something else entirely.

Or it could possibly be The Police getting their excuses in early. If you think things today are anywhere near as bad as they were back in the 70s, 80s and 90s you really are deluded.

Edited by MarshPhantom on Saturday 29th April 09:42

What are you basing your assessment of the current threat level on?

Going by the usual standard, a quick flick of the Morning Star during the post elevenses dump.

Explains things then.

[TonyToniTone]

Hainey said:

Hear Hear.

The country is under a threat level that the IRA would have given anything to achieve 30 years ago and yet certain elements find any reason to downplay the achievements of the Police and intelligence services in how well they have thwarted these cells so far.

Constrictive Critisism is one thing, what we see from some outlets is quite something else entirely.

I don't know why but you are playing down the IRA threat level.

[Fat Fairy]

TonyToniTone said:

Hainey said:

Hear Hear.

The country is under a threat level that the IRA would have given anything to achieve 30 years ago and yet certain elements find any reason to downplay the achievements of the Police and intelligence services in how well they have thwarted these cells so far.

Constrictive Critisism is one thing, what we see from some outlets is quite something else entirely.

I don't know why but you are playing down the IRA threat level.

I'd have to agree on that. The IRA were very real. I spent the better part of a decade checking under my car before going to work.

[Hainey]

TonyToniTone said:

Hainey said:

Hear Hear.

The country is under a threat level that the IRA would have given anything to achieve 30 years ago and yet certain elements find any reason to downplay the achievements of the Police and intelligence services in how well they have thwarted these cells so far.

Constrictive Critisism is one thing, what we see from some outlets is quite something else entirely.

I don't know why but you are playing down the IRA threat level.

I'm really not. At an intelligence lecture I remember being told that one of the IRAs big issues was blending in and moderating their accents and speech patterns from obviously over the water and hence they stuck out brightly when in places where they shouldn't have been. Sadly that led to the horrendous miscarriages of justice seen in later years as at one point there was almost a charge of 'walking while Irish' in some forces.

The current terror threat however are born and integrated and do not have that challenge to counter.

Edit to say to Fat Tony, I did the same checks. I still have the inspection mirror!

[TonyToniTone]

Hainey said:

I'm really not.

Yes, you are playing down the IRA threat level, it was as high as it is today and higher to say otherwise is nonsense.

The carnage they planned and often caused in the UK was on a different level to the Islamic lunes.

[Chlorothalonil]

MarshPhantom said:

The house was CS Gassed by the police and it was at this time the woman was shot.

Sounds reassuring.

CS isn't a gas, and PAVA is used these days...

[Derek Smith]

gruffalo said:

I think once she is well enough for visitor's or leaving she will be arrested.

No point arresting her when the hospital is an effective containment method.

If she is critical then there's no way they will arrest as they will not want a death in police custody as well.

[Hainey]

TonyToniTone said:

Hainey said:

I'm really not.

Yes, you are playing down the IRA threat level, it was as high as it is today and higher to say otherwise is nonsense.

The carnage they planned and often caused in the UK was on a different level to the Islamic lunes.

Thats your opinion presented as I have presented mine, but nonsense it is not.

The difference as I perceive it is that as military we were prime IRA targets and it was forefront of the mind as it had to be whereas today the public are the targets first and foremost.

Its went from being an 80/20 threat military/civil to the other way with the current problem.

You'll obviously disagree but please say why instead of just taking a 'firm' position and not giving reason.

You might even change my mind if it's sound enough as thats how debate is meant to function after all.

I would also say the lack of mass IRA level carnage proves my point about the effective Police work, and does not bolster the view of what you see as a league table of terrorist ability.

[jjlynn27]

Hainey said:

Thats your opinion presented as I have presented mine, but nonsense it is not.

The difference as I perceive it is that as military we were prime IRA targets and it was forefront of the mind as it had to be whereas today the public are the targets first and foremost.

Its went from being an 80/20 threat military/civil to the other way with the current problem.

You'll obviously disagree but please say why instead of just taking a 'firm' position and not giving reason.

You might even change my mind if it's sound enough as thats how debate is meant to function after all.

I don't have a figures at hand, but it would be useful to know a number of victims (both injuries and death) for both threats. You can further subdivide them into civ/pol.

[anonymous-user]

davidball said:

The victim, who is seriously wounded and under armed guard, is not under arrest. Perhaps someone can explain:

Who is she being protected from?
If she is suspected of being part of a terror plot why is she not under arrest?

You must have had your alerts on for another police firearms thread.

A 10 second Google search finds a BBC article which quotes it's, "Due to her condition".

In addition, IIRC, if they're looking to arrest under S.41 (TA 2000) then the detention clock does not stop at hospital (no idea why) unlike PACE.

[zarjaz1991]

La Liga said:

think it speaks volumes that you think you actually presented a 'view point'.

Typical troll. No substance, just sit on the sidelines making snide comments.

To be fair, at least you've not done the ever-hilarious, "they fell down the stairs", line yet.

I did try to work it into the post, to be fair, but I couldn't find a way to make it work when they've shot someone.

If I think of a way, I'll work it into a later post.

[danllama]

RE: the suspect wearing a burqa. Yesterday I heard someone on LBC claiming she was screaming at the police about her burqa, telling them they better not remove it or touch her. Is this backed up anywhere? I wonder if she's still wearing it in her hospital bed? And will she wear it to the grave?

[zarjaz1991]

Anyway, it's a fire escape. This isn't the 1970's, they'd never get away with it on stairs these days.

[Ayahuasca]

[anonymous-user]

zarjaz1991 said:

La Liga said:

think it speaks volumes that you think you actually presented a 'view point'.

Typical troll. No substance, just sit on the sidelines making snide comments.

To be fair, at least you've not done the ever-hilarious, "they fell down the stairs", line yet.

I did try to work it into the post, to be fair, but I couldn't find a way to make it work when they've shot someone.

If I think of a way, I'll work it into a later post.

I think you mean you can't find a way to make whatever you want to write work without it being easily pulled apart.

That's the problem with a child-like agenda and bias. It colours everything thought about the subject manner.

[Rushjob]

Chlorothalonil said:

CS isn't a gas, and PAVA is used these days...

The CS used on this op was in ferret form, usually in a 12 gauge shotgun cartridge and fired through windows etc. PAVA is used in a personal incapacitant spray, not for firearms ops.

[davidball]

gruffalo said:

davidball said:

So she is free to leave hospital at any time, free to have visits from whoever she chooses and free to talk to the press?

I think once she is well enough for visitor's or leaving she will be arrested.

No point arresting her when the hospital is an effective containment method.

That would seem to imply that the police have not arrested her because they feel they do not need to. Another possibility is that they do not have sufficient evidence or cause to arrest her.

[zarjaz1991]

La Liga said:

think you mean you can't find a way to make whatever you want to write work without it being easily pulled apart.

That's the problem with a child-like agenda and bias. It colours everything thought about the subject manner.

Naah. The "fell down a fire escape" thing relates to people being arrested, not shot.
There's nothing to pull apart, the "joke" - such that it is - simply doesn't work with a shooting.

The shooting equivalent is probably an analogy to Jean Charles de Menezes / shootings on tube stations, but someone beat me to that one in this thread, so I'm a bit stymied as I wouldn't want to steal their thunder.

My normal anti-police agenda will be resumed as soon as possible. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Cold]

davidball said:

That would seem to imply that the police have not arrested her because they feel they do not need to. Another possibility is that they do not have sufficient evidence or cause to arrest her.

The clock starts ticking once the arrest is made. Pointless triggering that if she's not in a position to answer any questions yet.

[TonyToniTone]

Hainey said:

The country is under a threat level that the IRA would have given anything to achieve 30 years ago

Hainey said:

Thats your opinion presented as I have presented mine, but nonsense it is not.

I think your first statement is nonsense as it contradicts reality, the IRA have had the country at our highest threat level, higher than it is currently

Hainey said:

I would also say the lack of mass IRA level carnage proves my point about the effective Police work, and does not bolster the view of what you see as a league table of terrorist ability.

Whilst I agree it would be much worse without the services, do you really think there was a lack of mass attacks, also not so sure about you 80/20 either..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_in...

If there was a UK table I think the IRA would be a few place higher than ISIS.