Reforming UK Tax System
Discussion
fblm said:
So that the workforce can afford to move to where they are needed. I'd go further and eliminate stamp duty on ppr. Secondly in a rising market it would make moving up the ladder almost impossible trapping families in unsuitable housing. Horrible idea. Sorry.
Surely stamp duty already does that.Having to find an additional 3% or 5% of the purchase price of a property every time you move surely inhibits workforce mobility.
In a rising market CGT on profit would have an impact, but would it necessarily be worse than stamp duty is now for anything but massive gains?
CGT on profit would allow greater workforce mobility in a stagnant market or for people who may be in neutral or negative equity.
Turnover tax.
The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
rxe said:
Turnover tax.
The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
Turnover tax makes no sense, it just increases prices to the consumer.The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
romeogolf said:
The question is prompted by a discussion with friends where despite similar incomes and thus paying similar levels of income tax, we had very different circumstances, and I almost felt that I (as a childless person on a reasonable income) should be paying a marginally higher rate than someone on a similar income but with a family.
You do pay a different rate overall: benefits available, childcare, NHS, education and local authority costs are spread. I think stamp duty is too much of a negative factor in skills mobility so perhaps it could be partly offset with a land-tax.
Funding elderly care is a growing problem and adversely affects other parts of healthcare so perhaps it's time for a death-asset tax (
)Edited by economicpygmy on Friday 28th April 20:19
fblm said:
Scrap ct. Scrap tax credits. Generous minimum wage. Limit unskilled immigration. Get rid of NI and put it all on income tax so people realise how much they are paying. Scrap stamp duty. Scrap inheritance tax but tax the beneficiaries income. That's it for now 
I don't think the Irish would be very happy with getting rid of N Ireland. Just sayin.....sidicks said:
Turnover tax makes no sense, it just increases prices to the consumer.
So does corporation tax, it's paid by the consumer too. Corporation tax incentivises investment as it's more valuable to the company to spend the money than pay tax on it, so it is good for the economy. But it is too complicated, creates arbitrage between companies and has too much cross over and conflict with VAT.
Both are essentially transaction taxes that are levied at variable rates, so my instinct is to replace them with one tax, though I doubt that would be a pure transaction tax.
In more general terms I think you need to start by sorting out government, make them honest about the tax system and set out the principles that underpin the reasons why we have each tax, then set the rates based on the money needed and the balance between the objectives of the different taxes. Then budgets would have to explain tax changes in terms of either changes in principles, or a need to spend more money.
That would cut most of the crap and complexity, it's only when you've done that and people understand the principles and purpose of what we have that it can be changed for the better.
sidicks said:
rxe said:
Turnover tax.
The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
Turnover tax makes no sense, it just increases prices to the consumer.The current corporation tax is heavily abused by pretty much every corporation out there. Some are losing heavily to more nimble (in tax terms) competitors.
So if you want to sell stuff in the UK, to consumers or anyone else, you pay a small percentage in tax. No diverting profits to luxembourg via holland, you just pay based on what you sell.
Given numbers involved, the rate could be tiny, a few % or less. Scrap the current corporation tax.
While we're at it, reduce the overall rate of corporation tax (increases tax take), as someone else said, combine National insurance and Income tax, so people can see what they are paying. Abolish student fees on subjects required by the country (engineering, medical, dentistry, media studies), Tax unhealthy foods, fizzy drinks and the like (and don't take no s
t from the food corporations). Abolish charitable status for private schools,and grants for the same. One education for all please. (Education is a huge social mobility issue). Tax (or ban) foreign individuals or companies buying property in 'hot spots' like the SE and London. And because it PH, equalise the tax between petrol and diesel. Diesel is cheaper per Kw, because it more energy dense. Oh, and abolish the Severn bridge and other road tolls.bearman68 said:
Turnover tax makes massive sense. Transfer pricing to low tax economies is rife, and detrimental to the market country. At least give the HRMC the opportunity to tax turnover not profit, if the company appears to not be playing fair. That will sort out the likes of Starbucks and Facebook.
If there is a tax of x% on turnover then the company will increase prices by x%.sidicks said:
bearman68 said:
Turnover tax makes massive sense. Transfer pricing to low tax economies is rife, and detrimental to the market country. At least give the HRMC the opportunity to tax turnover not profit, if the company appears to not be playing fair. That will sort out the likes of Starbucks and Facebook.
If there is a tax of x% on turnover then the company will increase prices by x%.paulrockliffe said:
Corporation tax incentivises investment as it's more valuable to the company to spend the money than pay tax on it, so it is good for the economy.
That's tenuous. I fail to see how reducing ROI after tax incentivises investment nor how taking 40bn a year out of the productive economy and spending it on, lets be generous, the less productive economy can be seen as good for the economy. We had a musician who lived in denmark stay with us a couple of years back. He said he paid iro 60% income tax but they could claim a very large percentage of the tax on everything they bought back. this makes it in every ones interest to get an invoice.
Re France, there is no CGT on PPR but 40% on 2nd homes. NI is iro 46%, income tax is iro 2% (clever French, no one complains about tax any more).
The biggest + in France is no one is allowed to sell at a loss. As you pay tax on profits this means a tax take on every thing sold. No cutting your own throat to spite your competition and no tax dodging.
Re France, there is no CGT on PPR but 40% on 2nd homes. NI is iro 46%, income tax is iro 2% (clever French, no one complains about tax any more).
The biggest + in France is no one is allowed to sell at a loss. As you pay tax on profits this means a tax take on every thing sold. No cutting your own throat to spite your competition and no tax dodging.
rxe said:
Turnover tax.
We already have that on many products, it's called VAT.Calling it turnover tax makes some people think the big nasty corporations pay it. In reality it is a percentage on every purchase, which is similar to VAT.
The only difference is a turnover tax would be comulative based on how many steps are in the supply chain. Buying from a farmer would have the tax applied once. Buying the same from a village shop would have the shop add their percentave after the farmer has added his percentage.
I'd see a complete simplification of tax.
For individuals the only tax you'll pay is income tax.
For companies you'll only pay on earnings.
If you make the levels of tax to the point where the tax take is comparable today (ie huge increases in both taxes) there'd be a huge simplification saving the beurocracy costs of managing so many different complexities.
Need some way to tax old money also, not figured this out yet as I see a fixed tax on wealth a bad idea.
For individuals the only tax you'll pay is income tax.
For companies you'll only pay on earnings.
If you make the levels of tax to the point where the tax take is comparable today (ie huge increases in both taxes) there'd be a huge simplification saving the beurocracy costs of managing so many different complexities.
Need some way to tax old money also, not figured this out yet as I see a fixed tax on wealth a bad idea.
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