Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Brads67 said:
That shows ignorance. The money is of no concern whatsoever.
If money is of no concern whatsoever then the reason is entertainment. That means the people involved are psychopaths who enjoy harming animals for fun. But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
I also detail how the money side of things works. Huntsmen being employed as full time employees etc.
colonel c said:
Has the chap on the horse got tourettes or something?
k off:Jasandjules said:
If money is of no concern whatsoever then the reason is entertainment. That means the people involved are psychopaths who enjoy harming animals for fun.
But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
Idiot. Effectiveness is the only concern you fanny. Money is of no concern when it comes to getting the job done properly.But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
Brads67 said:
Idiot. Effectiveness is the only concern you fanny. Money is of no concern when it comes to getting the job done properly.
Oh well of course. And it is done very properly by hunting on horseback. Ever asked a farmer what is the best method of killing foxes? Two of my good friends are farmers, for some reason neither of them think charging around on horses with 15 of their friends with a pack of dogs is.Jasandjules said:
Oh well of course. And it is done very properly by hunting on horseback. Ever asked a farmer what is the best method of killing foxes? Two of my good friends are farmers, for some reason neither of them think charging around on horses with 15 of their friends with a pack of dogs is.
Ask a farmer if a footpack of hounds is effective. Hunting with dogs is not all the same. Although the fox usually ends up dead in all methods.rambo19 said:
Big bid difference between chasing and stressing an animal before killing it, and a quick clean rifle shot.
If you’ve seen a fox get away, it’s likely to be in the next field scratching itself a minute later, like nothing has happened. Same for rabbits, hares etc. No wonder the Burns Inquiry found as it did.
NomduJour said:
rambo19 said:
Big bid difference between chasing and stressing an animal before killing it, and a quick clean rifle shot.
If you’ve seen a fox get away, it’s likely to be in the next field scratching itself a minute later, like nothing has happened. Same for rabbits, hares etc. No wonder the Burns Inquiry found as it did.Brads67 said:
Ask a farmer if a footpack of hounds is effective. Hunting with dogs is not all the same. Although the fox usually ends up dead in all methods.
He pays a bloke to come along one night, lots of bunnies and foxes are shot. Cheap, efficient and clean kills. Anything with large amounts of animals charging about causes damage. Ever seen what happens to a field of sheep when dogs run NEAR them? Not at them, not attack them. But even along the road by their field...But we are not discussing foothounds are we? Even if we were, that would be equally as cruel, anything that involves that level of chasing etc is not acceptable to me, but then I am not a big fan of animal cruelty. We could discuss how these hounds are taught to hunt fox and what happens to the young who don't attack if you like.. You see, I know someone that used to work in one too.....
Jasandjules said:
That means the people involved are psychopaths who enjoy harming animals for fun.
But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
My mother & sister were both members of a hunt. Both animal lovers. I don't think in all the hunts they ever attended they even saw a fox- to them it was simply a social occasion with foxes as an excuse.But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
Having said that, both consider foxes to be vermin on a par with rats.
Jasandjules said:
He pays a bloke to come along one night, lots of bunnies and foxes are shot. Cheap, efficient and clean kills. Anything with large amounts of animals charging about causes damage. Ever seen what happens to a field of sheep when dogs run NEAR them? Not at them, not attack them. But even along the road by their field...
But we are not discussing foothounds are we? Even if we were, that would be equally as cruel, anything that involves that level of chasing etc is not acceptable to me, but then I am not a big fan of animal cruelty. We could discuss how these hounds are taught to hunt fox and what happens to the young who don't attack if you like.. You see, I know someone that used to work in one too.....
Yawn, "I know somebody who this and that yadah yadah." Everybody who hates it comes out with the same stuff. Difference is I do it, I don't know someone who does, you see, I go out with the hounds and I have worked lurchers and dug to terriers.But we are not discussing foothounds are we? Even if we were, that would be equally as cruel, anything that involves that level of chasing etc is not acceptable to me, but then I am not a big fan of animal cruelty. We could discuss how these hounds are taught to hunt fox and what happens to the young who don't attack if you like.. You see, I know someone that used to work in one too.....
We are discussing foothounds cause we are discussing fox hunting. Hunting foxes with dogs.
Rovinghawk said:
Jasandjules said:
That means the people involved are psychopaths who enjoy harming animals for fun.
But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
My mother & sister were both members of a hunt. Both animal lovers. I don't think in all the hunts they ever attended they even saw a fox- to them it was simply a social occasion with foxes as an excuse.But you prove the point well, the fox hunters are nothing but scum who enjoy harming animals.
Having said that, both consider foxes to be vermin on a par with rats.
Reminds me of a similar discussion with a lovely chap/friend who is a farrier for one of the NW hunts.
Him: I don't know why people object to fox-hunting - they are pests that need to be controlled.
Me: But you once told me that you allow them to breed on selective parts of the land.
Him: Well, yes, sort of. But you need to understand that we have a lot of respect for the foxes. Sometimes when one is really smart and eludes us we give it a cheer. Most of the time we don't actually catch anything anyway.
Me: Oh, so as form of control it's not very good then?
Him: Not really, but it's the only way of separating the ill and old ones from the healthy.
Me: So you want the healthy ones to survive and escape? You make it sound like a deer cull.
Him: No, it's just a way of keeping the numbers down. It's an old tradition, you city people (although I grew up in the Yorkshire countryside) don't understand that. Anyway, it's more about class war than anything.
Me: Hmmm... slavery was tradition, too. So was cock-fighting, bull-baiting and dog fighting. They were the poor man's blood sports that got banned along time ago. Strange that it took a lot longer to get fox-hunting banned.
Him: You're missing the point entirely. It's a social thing, where people get together for the ride and enjoy the horses.
Me: So it's gone from a poor form of pest control, to an out-dated and cruel tradition to a social aspect. Why not just go for a ride?
Him: Er........
MikeT66 said:
Then why not just got for a ride out? Why involve hunting, particularly when it is not effective at catching the "vermin" (that most hunts are happy to allow to breed so they have something to chase)?
As someone who spends a bit of time around riders, and riders who go hunting, I can hopefully give you more insight into that.99% of people who own horses don’t own much, or any, ground to ride them on.
Land is expensive, and most people own nothing more than their garden.
Their horses are either stabled somewhere where there is only a small arena or field for exercise, or they are stables in a single rented field.
Or they are maybe lucky enough to live somewhere rural and have a large garden or small paddock where they keep the horse.
The whole point in owning a horse is to ride it.
For most people, they have 3 choices:
1) Pay the fees to ride in a hired arena or field for a day or evening. But this can be expensive and not much fun riding round and round in a relatively small area.
2) Ride out on the roads and country lanes. This is a horrendous way to ‘enjoy’ your horse. You will inevitably in a screaming match with a car driver during every outing, and you will spend the entire ride fighting with the horse as it gets frightened when a car or tractor goes past.
3) Ride out with the Hunt. This is by far the best option for many riders. You pay your £20 ‘cap’ fee upon arrival, and you then ride for hours and hours, over miles and miles of countryside almost totally unrestricted. You will be galloping fast, jumping hedges, walls and fences, jumping streams, riding over huge open fields, riding through wooded areas. You will be riding with a pack of 20, 30, or whatever other riders and horses.
There is virtually no other way riders can enjoy the freedom of galloping across miles of countryside and farmland.
This is why ‘Hunt balls’ and other hunt social events are so popular and busy. They are filled with hundreds of women and men who enjoy riding their horses with the hunt.
I would say most of them have zero interest in actually hunting. They are purely there to enjoy a day’s ride out.
The hunt is more than happy with this arrangement because the cap fees from riders and the money from Hunt social events go a long way to paying the salary of the hunt staff, and paying for the keeping of the hounds.
Foxhunts are a business. They have customers, subscribers, staff, and expenses.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 17th January 09:55
Lord Marylebone said:
As someone who spends a bit of time around riders, and riders who go hunting, I can hopefully give you more insight into that.
99% of people who own horses don’t own much, or any, ground to ride them on.
Land is expensive, and most people own nothing more than their garden.
Their horses are either stabled somewhere where there is only a small arena or field for exercise, or they are stables in a single rented field.
Or they are maybe lucky enough to live somewhere rural and have a large garden or small paddock where they keep the horse.
The whole point in owning a horse is to ride it.
For most people, they have 3 choices:
1) Pay the fees to ride in a hired arena or field for a day or evening. But this can be expensive and not much fun riding round and round in a relatively small area.
2) Ride out on the roads and country lanes. This is a horrendous way to ‘enjoy’ your horse. You will inevitably in a screaming match with a car driver during every outing, and you will spend the entire ride fighting with the horse as it gets frightened when a car or tractor goes past.
3) Ride out with the Hunt. This is by far the best option for many riders. You pay your £20 ‘cap’ fee upon arrival, and you then ride for hours and hours, over miles and miles of countryside almost totally unrestricted. You will be galloping fast, jumping hedges, walls and fences, jumping streams, riding over huge open fields, riding through wooded areas. You will be riding with a pack of 20, 30, or whatever other riders and horses.
There is virtually no other way riders can enjoy the freedom of galloping across miles of countryside and farmland.
This is why ‘Hunt balls’ and other hunt social events are so popular and busy. They are filled with hundreds of women and men who enjoy riding their horses with the hunt.
I would say most of them have zero interest in actually hunting. They are purely there to enjoy a day’s ride out.
The hunt is more than happy with this arrangement because the cap fees from riders and the money from Hunt social events go a long way to paying the salary of the hunt staff, and paying for the keeping of the hounds.
Foxhunts are a business. They have customers, subscribers, staff, and expenses.
So all that could be easily achieved with legal trail hunting or other imaginative events. There is simply no need for the cruelty. 99% of people who own horses don’t own much, or any, ground to ride them on.
Land is expensive, and most people own nothing more than their garden.
Their horses are either stabled somewhere where there is only a small arena or field for exercise, or they are stables in a single rented field.
Or they are maybe lucky enough to live somewhere rural and have a large garden or small paddock where they keep the horse.
The whole point in owning a horse is to ride it.
For most people, they have 3 choices:
1) Pay the fees to ride in a hired arena or field for a day or evening. But this can be expensive and not much fun riding round and round in a relatively small area.
2) Ride out on the roads and country lanes. This is a horrendous way to ‘enjoy’ your horse. You will inevitably in a screaming match with a car driver during every outing, and you will spend the entire ride fighting with the horse as it gets frightened when a car or tractor goes past.
3) Ride out with the Hunt. This is by far the best option for many riders. You pay your £20 ‘cap’ fee upon arrival, and you then ride for hours and hours, over miles and miles of countryside almost totally unrestricted. You will be galloping fast, jumping hedges, walls and fences, jumping streams, riding over huge open fields, riding through wooded areas. You will be riding with a pack of 20, 30, or whatever other riders and horses.
There is virtually no other way riders can enjoy the freedom of galloping across miles of countryside and farmland.
This is why ‘Hunt balls’ and other hunt social events are so popular and busy. They are filled with hundreds of women and men who enjoy riding their horses with the hunt.
I would say most of them have zero interest in actually hunting. They are purely there to enjoy a day’s ride out.
The hunt is more than happy with this arrangement because the cap fees from riders and the money from Hunt social events go a long way to paying the salary of the hunt staff, and paying for the keeping of the hounds.
Foxhunts are a business. They have customers, subscribers, staff, and expenses.
Edited by Lord Marylebone on Thursday 17th January 09:55
Rovinghawk said:
My mother & sister were both members of a hunt. Both animal lovers.
No, they were not. Anyone who thinks chasing foxes with a pack of dogs then having them torn apart or being involved in any such activity, is not an animal lover. They might like say their dog or their cat, but that is different.Jasandjules said:
Rovinghawk said:
My mother & sister were both members of a hunt. Both animal lovers.
No, they were not. Anyone who thinks chasing foxes with a pack of dogs then having them torn apart or being involved in any such activity, is not an animal lover. That being said, neither ever even saw a fox when they were out.
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