Fox Hunting

[colonel c]

Lord Marylebone said:

colonel c said:

So all that could be easily achieved with legal trail hunting or other imaginative events. There is simply no need for the cruelty.

I dont know is the answer.

In my part of the world, there have been numerous ‘point to point’ events, many have which have now folded due to the expenses of organising one vs the income from riders and participants. Also an issue is the difficulty in getting permission from landowners.

Plus, big point to point events are only a few times per year, and generally they are only a few miles in length.

Trail hunting doesn’t get the permission from landowners that hunting does.

Farmers are generally against allowing a bunch of horse riders to simply galavant across their land for fun, and without paying, which is fair enough.

But if the farmers feel that the hunt is providing a service to the community (by killing foxes) then they generally allow permission for it to happen.

Some farmers of course don’t allow permission, and that is their right to do so.

There is almost nothing else available for horse riders that allows them to properly gallop their horses for miles across the countryside like they love doing.

I think this is what people don’t understand about hunting. They think just cancel it altogether, there is no need for it, no one will really care if it is totally banned, people won’t really be inconvenienced in any way and so on.

The truth is that many people are actually employed full time by hunts, and hundreds of horse riders and equestrian enthusiasts use the hunt to enjoy their hobby of horse riding.

Like I said, in many hunts, catching foxes is just not on the list of reasons to go out hunting.

Some hunts it is absolutely the reason to go out.

That’s me explaining things as best I can.

Thanks for taking the time detailing your thoughts.
I can see the problem for equestrians. As an off roader we had many hundreds if not thousands of miles of green lanes removed from us by an unnecessary act of parliament some twenty years ago. Mainly down to uninformed campaign groups and amongst others the CLA.
I like most other off roaders have had to accept the restrictions placed on us. It’s not unreasonable to expect participants in other activities to also respect the law, however unjust they might believe it to be.

[Jasandjules]

carinatauk said:

It is a natural instinct for dogs to hunt.

Which dogs?

[Rovinghawk]

Jasandjules said:

Which dogs?

All.

[colonel c]

Rovinghawk said:

Jasandjules said:

Which dogs?

All.

My dog (Collie cross) will chase rabbits but not kill them. On occasion she actually manages to catch one. She will hold it down until I arrive. I don’t think she is unique in that. The kill instinct has been bread out.

[super7]

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Rovinghawk said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Do you think being someone who can watch an animal suffering a terrible ending sits well with the claim of being someone who cares for animals?

So much better that they get old & frail, slowly freezing to death come winter?

As I said, if it's a pest control, or as you suggest welfare, then take it out with a gun. They'd not even hear the gunshot before they died.

Unless of course they get hit in the rear leg, and walk around for days with shattered bones.... dieing of infection from buckshot or a from a hole in the leg????

Makes get dispatched by a pack of hounds quite welcomming...... especially when you have a good chance of getting away free in the first place.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

popeyewhite said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Do you think being someone who can watch an animal suffering a terrible ending sits well with the claim of being someone who cares for animals?

I watched my dog suffer a terrible ending. I should have had him put down down weeks earlier, and he had an awful time before his death. Because of me, because I loved him.

Like I said, whether I, or you, think someone else's understanding of an emotion is correct or incorrect is according to our beliefs, not theirs. Please bear that in mind.

Off topic, don't beat yourself up over your late friend. PTS draws up the most horrible of conflicting emotions, as you say because of love. 5 years ago I had to put my then dog to sleep, long before his time (spinal injury) there was no happy ending for him which ever way you looked at it. I had to phone my mum, as a 36 year old because I couldn't bring myself to say yes, she told me (rightly) "you know what you need to do"

[eccles]

Lord Marylebone said:

MikeT66 said:

Then why not just got for a ride out? Why involve hunting, particularly when it is not effective at catching the "vermin" (that most hunts are happy to allow to breed so they have something to chase)?

As someone who spends a bit of time around riders, and riders who go hunting, I can hopefully give you more insight into that.

99% of people who own horses don’t own much, or any, ground to ride them on.

Land is expensive, and most people own nothing more than their garden.

Their horses are either stabled somewhere where there is only a small arena or field for exercise, or they are stables in a single rented field.

Or they are maybe lucky enough to live somewhere rural and have a large garden or small paddock where they keep the horse.

The whole point in owning a horse is to ride it.

For most people, they have 3 choices:

1) Pay the fees to ride in a hired arena or field for a day or evening. But this can be expensive and not much fun riding round and round in a relatively small area.

2) Ride out on the roads and country lanes. This is a horrendous way to ‘enjoy’ your horse. You will inevitably in a screaming match with a car driver during every outing, and you will spend the entire ride fighting with the horse as it gets frightened when a car or tractor goes past.

3) Ride out with the Hunt. This is by far the best option for many riders. You pay your £20 ‘cap’ fee upon arrival, and you then ride for hours and hours, over miles and miles of countryside almost totally unrestricted. You will be galloping fast, jumping hedges, walls and fences, jumping streams, riding over huge open fields, riding through wooded areas. You will be riding with a pack of 20, 30, or whatever other riders and horses.

There is virtually no other way riders can enjoy the freedom of galloping across miles of countryside and farmland.

This is why ‘Hunt balls’ and other hunt social events are so popular and busy. They are filled with hundreds of women and men who enjoy riding their horses with the hunt.

I would say most of them have zero interest in actually hunting. They are purely there to enjoy a day’s ride out.

The hunt is more than happy with this arrangement because the cap fees from riders and the money from Hunt social events go a long way to paying the salary of the hunt staff, and paying for the keeping of the hounds.

Foxhunts are a business. They have customers, subscribers, staff, and expenses.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Thursday 17th January 09:55

I have to admit I find your ' I need to exercise my horse' as a justification for fox hunting quite bizarre. You forget there's a whole network of paths and track designated for horses (and others) called bridleways.
I bet the percentage of horses used in hunts is really quite small out of the total owned in the UK, and your average horse is probably too small for the hunt, Hunters are very big horses up close, certainly bigger than your average pony.

[anonymous-user]

eccles said:

I have to admit I find your ' I need to exercise my horse' as a justification for fox hunting quite bizarre. You forget there's a whole network of paths and track designated for horses (and others) called bridleways.
I bet the percentage of horses used in hunts is really quite small out of the total owned in the UK, and your average horse is probably too small for the hunt, Hunters are very big horses up close, certainly bigger than your average pony.

I’m not attempting to justify hunting. I’m not sure how many times I have to say that.

I am trying to add my conversations and discoveries to this thread, that I have acquired from spending time around riders and hunters.

[Brads67]

Rovinghawk said:

So much better that they get old & frail, slowly freezing to death come winter?

Wow

so that makes you better than them lol. What an arse.

[Jasandjules]

super7 said:

Unless of course they get hit in the rear leg, and walk around for days with shattered bones.... dieing of infection from buckshot or a from a hole in the leg????

If you can't get a kill then you don't take the shot. If you are that poor a shot I am not sure you should have a firearm either. No-one I've seen taking out foxes uses a shotgun either.

[NomduJour]

Jasandjules said:

If you can't get a kill then you don't take the shot. If you are that poor a shot I am not sure you should have a firearm either

What planet do you live on?

[anonymous-user]

Jasandjules said:

If you can't get a kill then you don't take the shot. If you are that poor a shot I am not sure you should have a firearm either. No-one I've seen taking out foxes uses a shotgun either.

Almost anyone can get a shotgun or rifle licence.

Knowing which way round to point one doesn’t even come into it.

I’ve seen people who are horrendous shots firing at birds and animals.

Hitting an animal at a distance, especially a moving animal, can be difficult even for someone fairly competent.

[Brads67]

Jasandjules said:

If you can't get a kill then you don't take the shot. If you are that poor a shot I am not sure you should have a firearm either. No-one I've seen taking out foxes uses a shotgun either.

Just keeps getting better. Have you any idea how many foxes are shot using shotguns ?

Plenty folk just stand with a shotgun and call them in.

[anonymous-user]

Brads67 said:

Just keeps getting better. Have you any idea how many foxes are shot using shotguns ?

Plenty folk just stand with a shotgun and call them in.

Indeed.

If you buy cartridges such as Gamebore Mammoth then you can easily kill a fox with a single shot at 40-50 metres.

[Darkslider]

carinatauk said:

I suppose the real risk is if they are following a scent and happen across fox then what do you think they will go for?

I'm not pro hunting, but this is a popular argument and misconception. The trail on a legal hunt is laid by a human runner 'dragging' a scented cloth or similar cross country prior to the hunt starting. Aniseed and other chemicals are intentionally used so there can be no confusion about what scent to follow, the dogs used aren't even fox hounds anymore I don't think, blood hounds are far more common.

[Rovinghawk]

Brads67 said:

What an arse.

Perfect for dealing with a little st such as yourself?

[Brads67]

Rovinghawk said:

Perfect for dealing with a little st such as yourself?

I quoted the wrong post actually But hey , hats fitting ect lol.

[anonymous-user]

Trial of hunt people: no evidence

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/17445511.four-men...

FOUR men accused of violence towards hunt protestors during a Middleton Hunt meeting have been formally cleared.

The CPS offered no evidence against all defendants at the end of two days of legal argument.

[Randy Winkman]

There seems to be a bit of evidence in this case:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottingha...

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Randy Winkman said:

There seems to be a bit of evidence in this case:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-nottingha...

Off topic, but that's the road that my mum and dad live on!