Fox Hunting

[Boring_Chris]

IanH755 said:

kingston12 said:

Perhaps, but what is the point of killing the foxes then? Surely it easier just to get dressed up and go for a ride if that is their thing?

The pest control argument doesn't really hold water as we have cheaper, more efficient and more humane ways of doing that. If the hunters don't get enjoyment from killing the animal, then why do it?

Whats the point? - I guess having a "target or goal" to do something rather than just having an aimless ride around the countryside. Isn't this why simulated Hunts still exist, to give purpose to a ride?

Enjoyment - As above really, I'd guess the enjoyment comes from having a goal and achieving it.

Personally my "enjoyment" at amateur pest control for my local farmer came from proving I had the skill to put something very small (4-8mm bullet) into something the size of a tennis ball (brain/heart) at various ranges every time without missing, causing an instant humane death. Knowing I'd stopped any further damage caused by the animal I'd killed, well I wouldn't consider that to be "enjoyment", just "professionalism" in getting the job done to the best of my ability.

I understand the need for pest control, but there are better things to be doing. Seriously.

[kingston12]

IanH755 said:

Whats the point? - I guess having a "target or goal" to do something rather than just having an aimless ride around the countryside. Isn't this why simulated Hunts still exist, to give purpose to a ride?

Enjoyment - As above really, I'd guess the enjoyment comes from having a goal and achieving it.

Indeed, but that was the point I was (badly!) making originally. I find it quite frightening that people out there gain satisfaction or enjoyment from having the goal inhumanely killing a fox, whether they see the actual kill or not.

IanH755 said:

Personally my "enjoyment" at amateur pest control for my local farmer came from proving I had the skill to put something very small (4-8mm bullet) into something the size of a tennis ball (brain/heart) at various ranges every time without missing, causing an instant humane death. Knowing I'd stopped any further damage caused by the animal I'd killed, well I wouldn't consider that to be "enjoyment", just "professionalism" in getting the job done to the best of my ability.

For me, this is totally the opposite. Firstly, it must rank amongst the most humane ways of getting rid of pests and secondly it shows much more personal skill (in my opinion) than just letting a pack of dogs loose on an animal, pest or not.

[hyphen]

teapea said:

It seems very odd to bring this back up now.
The majority are against it, if it's a free vote it's almost certainly not going to go through anyway.
so why bother??

[Goaty Bill 2]

If it gets just this one fox, it will have been worth it!

[BOR]

PH XKR said:

Wow.

How is Labour funded?

Oh don't play the innocent. Let's av a look.

Labour funded by unions and membership fees of thousands of individuals. Oh look. Conservative Party funding: Individual/individual/individual etc.




What's the quid pro quo for GBP250K these days ?

[anonymous-user]

BOR said:

PH XKR said:

Wow.

How is Labour funded?

Oh don't play the innocent. Let's av a look.

Labour funded by unions and membership fees of thousands of individuals. Oh look. Conservative Party funding: Individual/individual/individual etc.




What's the quid pro quo for GBP250K these days ?

Oh don't play the innocent Please list all the taxpayers money given to the unions, oh look it's multiple millions in schemes set up by the labour party...'union modernisation fund' for example

Fun game, can anyone play?

[BOR]

I'm not sure. It's not clear what your point is.

You don't seem to have grasped the difference between a single individual buying political influence and a union, which is backed by thousands of individuals.

[Hoofy]

PH XKR said:

I hope we get the hunt back, we need to stop this left field vision that foxes are somehow cute and cuddly. Like badgers, we need a cull. Unfortunately the urban fox is now a real nuisance and the hunt will do nothing there, but it would be nice to see them tackle the towns which are rife with them,

I'm not sure I'm happy to have 20 or so men on horse back leaping over my fence to chase a fox.

Yours,

Miffed of SW London

[PH XKR]

Hoofy said:

PH XKR said:

I hope we get the hunt back, we need to stop this left field vision that foxes are somehow cute and cuddly. Like badgers, we need a cull. Unfortunately the urban fox is now a real nuisance and the hunt will do nothing there, but it would be nice to see them tackle the towns which are rife with them,

I'm not sure I'm happy to have 20 or so men on horse back leaping over my fence to chase a fox.

Yours,

Miffed of SW London

Dear Mifferd of SW London,

in response to your concerns over damage to your B&Q 4 foot panel fencing, the countryside alliance are prepared to offer you and your family the chance to provide refuge to a cuddly set of badgers. As you are aware, badgers are in no way a danger to others, are cute and cuddly and are unable to transmit tuberculosis to humans (just cows). Would you be happy with this as compensation if the Hampstead hunt were to, on occasion, chase a few urban foxes down Acacia Avenue?

Yours

Betterthanyow, the Tory Countryside

[WCZ]

PH XKR said:

Dear Mifferd of SW London,

in response to your concerns over damage to your B&Q 4 foot panel fencing, the countryside alliance are prepared to offer you and your family the chance to provide refuge to a cuddly set of badgers. As you are aware, badgers are in no way a danger to others, are cute and cuddly and are unable to transmit tuberculosis to humans (just cows). Would you be happy with this as compensation if the Hampstead hunt were to, on occasion, chase a few urban foxes down Acacia Avenue?

Yours

Betterthanyow, the Tory Countryside

culling is culling, fox hunting is entertainment for people who have no issues in inflicting exhaustion and death upon animals for their own pleasure.

[PH XKR]

WCZ said:

PH XKR said:

Dear Mifferd of SW London,

in response to your concerns over damage to your B&Q 4 foot panel fencing, the countryside alliance are prepared to offer you and your family the chance to provide refuge to a cuddly set of badgers. As you are aware, badgers are in no way a danger to others, are cute and cuddly and are unable to transmit tuberculosis to humans (just cows). Would you be happy with this as compensation if the Hampstead hunt were to, on occasion, chase a few urban foxes down Acacia Avenue?

Yours

Betterthanyow, the Tory Countryside

culling is culling, fox hunting is entertainment for people who have no issues in inflicting exhaustion and death upon animals for their own pleasure.

In a world where we no longer have the thrill of the chase, we end up in a world of men that wear skinny jeans.

[TTwiggy]

'The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'.

[Hoofy]

PH XKR said:

Hoofy said:

PH XKR said:

I hope we get the hunt back, we need to stop this left field vision that foxes are somehow cute and cuddly. Like badgers, we need a cull. Unfortunately the urban fox is now a real nuisance and the hunt will do nothing there, but it would be nice to see them tackle the towns which are rife with them,

I'm not sure I'm happy to have 20 or so men on horse back leaping over my fence to chase a fox.

Yours,

Miffed of SW London

Dear Mifferd of SW London,

in response to your concerns over damage to your B&Q 4 foot panel fencing, the countryside alliance are prepared to offer you and your family the chance to provide refuge to a cuddly set of badgers. As you are aware, badgers are in no way a danger to others, are cute and cuddly and are unable to transmit tuberculosis to humans (just cows). Would you be happy with this as compensation if the Hampstead hunt were to, on occasion, chase a few urban foxes down Acacia Avenue?

Yours

Betterthanyow, the Tory Countryside

Not sure why you think I think badgers or foxes are cuddly. I just don't want my fences smashed down and my nice garden trampled to death. The foxes can all die as far as I am concerned what with their screamy sex noises at 4am.

Yours,

Confused of SW London.

Edited by Hoofy on Wednesday 10th May 12:55

[hyphen]

PH XKR said:

WCZ said:

PH XKR said:

Dear Mifferd of SW London,

in response to your concerns over damage to your B&Q 4 foot panel fencing, the countryside alliance are prepared to offer you and your family the chance to provide refuge to a cuddly set of badgers. As you are aware, badgers are in no way a danger to others, are cute and cuddly and are unable to transmit tuberculosis to humans (just cows). Would you be happy with this as compensation if the Hampstead hunt were to, on occasion, chase a few urban foxes down Acacia Avenue?

Yours

Betterthanyow, the Tory Countryside

culling is culling, fox hunting is entertainment for people who have no issues in inflicting exhaustion and death upon animals for their own pleasure.

In a world where we no longer have the thrill of the chase, we end up in a world of men that wear skinny jeans.

Because Hunting Breeches are so much better?

[Blue Oval84]

Hayek said:

Taking recreational drugs has a negative impact on others.

It would have a lot less negative impact on others if it were legalised. We put up with the consequences of legalised alcohol, which are orders of magnitude worse than the consequences of legalising, for example, coke and cannabis.

[rgw2012]

I'm not fussed about the outcome of a vote but I can't relate to all the "it's so inhume and cruel" views. The ultimate end for a fox being attacked by a pack of dogs is nature in action - sure it is as a result of a human construct (ie letting the dogs loose into the countryside) but no one is forcing the dogs to attack and kill the prey, it happens as a result of natural primal instinct. Just as a cat attacks birds and mice when they are let out into the garden.

If you see first hand the carnage that a fox can reap on chickens or sheep you will realise that nature, viewed from a human perspective, can be inhumane and even cruel maybe, but that is an emotive perspective of how nature really is. However much you dislike the hunt concept and activity, shooting is not the answer either. Yes, there are skilled marksmen out there but I have seen some badly maimed animals as a result of shooting by both skilled and "amateur" shooters - end result being the same as some hunts. Equally there aren't many of the foxes that get hit by a car that don't encounter suffering prior to their final demise - what are we going to do about that - fences, less cars? I don't think so.

I do get the dislike of the many against one advantage that a hunt has against a fox, but when you really acknowledge foxes for the vermin that they are and the damage they do to other animals, there is no sympathy angle for them at all from my perspective.

[WCZ]

PH XKR said:

In a world where we no longer have the thrill of the chase, we end up in a world of men that wear skinny jeans.

so you think the word 'thrill' actually is appropriate for this? you are sick.

there are plenty of dangerous thrills left in this world, motorsport, boxing, extreme sports etc

I don't think the ban on fox hunting was the result of a skinny-jeans wearing over-PC society.

[WCZ]

rgw2012 said:

If you see first hand the carnage that a fox can reap on chickens or sheep you will realise that nature, viewed from a human perspective, can be inhumane and even cruel maybe, but that is an emotive perspective of how nature really is.

I have chickens, they have a large enclosure with mesh wiring. Last week a fox bit through the wires, climbed through and killed all of our hens - there were feathers everywhere and although it's upsetting to think of the poor hens sleeping then having to fight for their lives, I accept it's nature.

This is completely different, like you suggest we are engineering this situation so therefore we have to take responsibility for it for the very reason that animals/nature doesn't have morals. If I released a wild coyote into a hospital room full of babies then simply said 'it's nature mate, don't blame me' when it snacks on a few new-borns then that's wrong too.

[Goaty Bill 2]

The fox is offered the same death which it offers it's own victims / food.

If someone were tying it down and physically torturing it, I might find myself somewhat upset at the notion and inspired to have a strong opinion against it.
That the fox dies in the same way as his/her chicken dinners concerns me not in the slightest.

Few animals in nature will die of 'old age'. After all 'old age' itself is no more than an alias for the disease / organ failure that finally killed you.
For animals, this will most often mean the disease or organ failure that leads to an inability to hunt, leading finally to starvation.
Nature is cruel. Always.

[hyphen]

Goaty Bill 2 said:

The fox is offered the same death which it offers it's own victims / food.

If someone were tying it down and physically torturing it, I might find myself somewhat upset at the notion and inspired to have a strong opinion against it.
That the fox dies in the same way as his/her chicken dinners concerns me not in the slightest.

So our laws should be changed too? Any punishment should be the same as the victim suffered, any killer be killed the same way.

An eye for an eye perhaps?