Moped muggers and police bike chase laws
Discussion
Massive problem in our area of London (Angel).
In the last month, my girlfriend had her iPhone 7 stolen on her way home by a cyclist who rode onto the pavement, shoved her and snatched it from her hand. Week later, my colleague had exactly the same thing, except two guys on a moped this time (no plates, of course).
When the police came round, they admitted that it was absolutely out of control at the moment. Officer said that, ever since Henry Hicks, they've been reluctant to pursue as if something goes wrong, the officer knows that they'll get the blame. He also said that if even if they are caught, they tend to get a laughably short sentence. He mentioned that they caught one chap the other week who had snatched 25 in less than an hour - even if you assume they only get £100 a phone, that's £2500 an hour...
I don't blame the police in the slightest - the issue is with the press / judiciary.
In the last month, my girlfriend had her iPhone 7 stolen on her way home by a cyclist who rode onto the pavement, shoved her and snatched it from her hand. Week later, my colleague had exactly the same thing, except two guys on a moped this time (no plates, of course).
When the police came round, they admitted that it was absolutely out of control at the moment. Officer said that, ever since Henry Hicks, they've been reluctant to pursue as if something goes wrong, the officer knows that they'll get the blame. He also said that if even if they are caught, they tend to get a laughably short sentence. He mentioned that they caught one chap the other week who had snatched 25 in less than an hour - even if you assume they only get £100 a phone, that's £2500 an hour...
I don't blame the police in the slightest - the issue is with the press / judiciary.
Edited by wiffmaster on Saturday 13th May 19:06
All the central London boroughs are getting hit really bad.
Its mopeds and cycles doing the thefts,you graduate from the cycles to mopeds.
They tend to hunt in packs as well.
Dont forget a third to half of the thefts will not be reported.
Best advice is not to use your phone in the street.
The only way they get caught is if the helicopter is up which is not often, and they can follow them home.
Due to operational changes its getting worse if thats possible.
Its mopeds and cycles doing the thefts,you graduate from the cycles to mopeds.
They tend to hunt in packs as well.
Dont forget a third to half of the thefts will not be reported.
Best advice is not to use your phone in the street.
The only way they get caught is if the helicopter is up which is not often, and they can follow them home.
Due to operational changes its getting worse if thats possible.
Thing is it's not just thefts that these scum are using the mopeds for.
GF has just encountered a load of them blocking a main roundabout to do bunouts/s
tty wheelies on a moped (apparently they can do that, always thought hey were a bit st and slow) whilst others blocked all area's filming it.
Other gangs around us seem to just use them to go round committing ASB - yesterday was riding along (pavements and all) flower bombing cars and ped's, apparently today is a fire extinguisher...
GF has just encountered a load of them blocking a main roundabout to do bunouts/s
tty wheelies on a moped (apparently they can do that, always thought hey were a bit st and slow) whilst others blocked all area's filming it.Other gangs around us seem to just use them to go round committing ASB - yesterday was riding along (pavements and all) flower bombing cars and ped's, apparently today is a fire extinguisher...
wiffmaster said:
I don't blame the police in the slightest - the issue is with the press / judiciary.
I don't blame the police. But I don't blame the press or the judiciary either.Edited by wiffmaster on Saturday 13th May 19:06
The press just report stuff people want to hear about. Are they supposed to supress reporting of police chase deaths? Nah, never gonna stick, it would just make the families kick off x10.
The judiciary just enterpret laws as written, and sentence per guidelines. If the police have a national policy that says they will seek command level ( or whatever) approval before continuing a chase, and they don't do it, and someone dies, then it's never going to go well for them.
If they had obtained approval and a crim dies, it's still going to go badly, but at least there isn't a huge crack for the family's layers to prise open.
How many thread are on spl about the police doing dangerous stuff. The police are perfectly able to drive dangerously (blue lights not withstanding) and if someone dies as a result, it's gonna be tough arguing that it isn't death by dangerous driving.
Nor can the judiciary turn a blind eye for the police. This would have famaliy's kicking off x100, and breaks a crucial democratic principle of no-one being above the law. One rule for them, another for us? Er, thanks, but no thanks.
Sooo, who is to blame, and what should the police do?
(Ignoring the perpetrators and people whose inattention makes them easy targets).
Some thoughts from me:
Do police forces need to stop holding themselves to a 19 page manual about pursuits? What caused this to be put in place? Who would stop them from ripping a few pages out? Perhaps parliament should put some more tangible limit on liability in chase situations if it is carried out sensibly ( though I suppose that's why the guidance is so long already)
What do the police think? Do they want the power to kick riders off? (I saw a continental youtube where a motorcycle cop pulled his gun on a pair of bikers to make them stop)
What solutions are there? I can't see stop sticks etc working with ptws, given how manouverable they are. You can't use physical barriers like narrow bollards because the cyclists would kick off.
More deterrent via sentencing could be good (assuming you can catch them) but it leaves the age old problem of how to punish someone who has nothing / doesn't give a toss
More prevention? Better security on scooters? Notices in public places warning people about the incidence of theft (though I don't believe for a second people would pay the slightest attention)
More roadside checks on scooters? But again how do you make them stop?
It's definitely a tricky one.
Ian
Ian Geary said:
It's definitely a tricky one.
The Police need to focus on crime rather than just 'compliance' offences, they need to use less of the cameras and more of the people on the streets but I doubt it will happen because the automated stuff is so easy and catching crims involves manpower and actually getting off yer arse.Far easier to use the cowardly, lazy approach of Policing by CCTV even if it catches the wrong people...
kiethton said:
Thing is it's not just thefts that these scum are using the mopeds for.
GF has just encountered a load of them blocking a main roundabout to do bunouts/stty wheelies on a moped (apparently they can do that, always thought hey were a bit st and slow) whilst others blocked all area's filming it.
UK Bike Life.GF has just encountered a load of them blocking a main roundabout to do bunouts/s
tty wheelies on a moped (apparently they can do that, always thought hey were a bit st and slow) whilst others blocked all area's filming it.I saw on one of the cop shows that they have been given the green light to use stingers on bikes.
Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
exelero said:
I saw on one of the cop shows that they have been given the green light to use stingers on bikes.
Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
This happens a fair bit in my neck of the woods, two examples:Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-teen-accuse...
http://indosurflife.com/2016/03/alleged-bag-thief-...
Note the use of 'alleged', it's all quite hilarious until you consider they might have the wrong person.
jdw100 said:
exelero said:
I saw on one of the cop shows that they have been given the green light to use stingers on bikes.
Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
This happens a fair bit in my neck of the woods, two examples:Anyway IMHO why will this not stop at all?
-The one who gets his/her phone stolen from their hands are probably phone-zombies (that's how I call them) and have their payment plan+ insurance for theft. They will have their phone replaced at no extra cost and keep walkin' around with their phone in their hand and get screwed over and over again
- Getting away on a moped is very easy in a crowded town full of traffic and little aisle ways.
Personally if I was a copper, I wouldn't prosecute at all. I'd just give them a bit of sweet street justice and let them go.
Pain gives you a memory of what not to do
http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/bali-teen-accuse...
http://indosurflife.com/2016/03/alleged-bag-thief-...
Note the use of 'alleged', it's all quite hilarious until you consider they might have the wrong person.
We have a justice system that will punish you quite well had you got something worth losing or had some form of socially minded conscience. On the whole it works well, i still remember the story of 10penceshort (Sorry if i have the name wrong, not one for names).
There are criminals here who are not phased by such soft handed treatment in the grandscheme of things and such a lifestyle however awful looking to us, is somehow lauded and quite livable to them.
Having seen plenty of cop shows from traffic cops which can sometimes be quite harsh on the actual police, to the tongue in cheek roadwars, you see it time and again that some criminals are just a bit too out of reach/out of touch with a justice system that seems to be more geared towards those who have some sort of mind for society at large, feel shame for doing wrong and have something to lose in a law abiding sense, such as the ability to drive within the law.
To that small section a good kicking wouldn't go too far wrong and to those who have nothing wrong in their lives, who live quite happily and just cannot fathom how destructive their moral busybodying is, need to stop their petty crusades and their idiotic mindset of "They're all good lads really" or "It's not their fault its their upbringing/class/race". I've never known a time through history where people are living so easily that they have a surplus of sympathy/good faith and disregard victims and instead side with the criminal.
A police colleague of mine was convicted of causing death by dangerous driving when a stolen motorcycle he was chasing crashed, killing the rider. He went to prison. ( Later released on appeal but served several months in prison. Nice for a serving police officer as you can imagine)
I wouldn't chase a motorcycle.
I wouldn't chase a motorcycle.
loose cannon said:
It's a shame a big gang of police can't stage a nice little set up sting operation to catch them all out or better still a huge bunch of there previous angry customers,
Maybe a nice handset set with some form of incendiary device that melts there face and arms of immediately
I agree - it cannot be beyond the wit of man to set up a number of operations, with tracked phones, video surveillence, and tagging devices to catch entire gangs "at work" Maybe a nice handset set with some form of incendiary device that melts there face and arms of immediately
Why the Police don't do this - I don't understand
ChemicalChaos said:
Apologies in advance as this article is by Katie Hopkins, for the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Why apologise if you're trawling the Daily Mail for news stories to link to a car owner's forum?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Just accept you're a fan of quality journalism & move on.
zygalski said:
ChemicalChaos said:
Apologies in advance as this article is by Katie Hopkins, for the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Why apologise if you're trawling the Daily Mail for news stories to link to a car owner's forum?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Just accept you're a fan of quality journalism & move on.
Like most i wont deny i browse the Mail, less for it's content and more for the comments bar, a great mix of common sense, idiocy and outright trolling.
MrBrightSi said:
zygalski said:
ChemicalChaos said:
Apologies in advance as this article is by Katie Hopkins, for the Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Why apologise if you're trawling the Daily Mail for news stories to link to a car owner's forum?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4500202/KA...
Anyway, London residents - is this as much of an epidemic as is being made out?
Isn't it about time something was done about the police laws stopping them chasing bikes? What not have police bikes to chase these scum if cars are too unwieldy?
Surely if you get injured running from the police, it's YOUR fault for being a criminal in the first place?
Just accept you're a fan of quality journalism & move on.
Like most i wont deny i browse the Mail, less for it's content and more for the comments bar, a great mix of common sense, idiocy and outright trolling.
jeff m2 said:
I'd love to get inside the head of the people that make these pursuit rules.
Twould seem there is sufficient space.
Making the lack of ability to pursue very difficult public does not really help.
This will very likely take a death before any change is made.
Unlikely. It was a death or deaths which brought us here.Twould seem there is sufficient space.
Making the lack of ability to pursue very difficult public does not really help.
This will very likely take a death before any change is made.
Gargamel said:
loose cannon said:
It's a shame a big gang of police can't stage a nice little set up sting operation to catch them all out or better still a huge bunch of there previous angry customers,
Maybe a nice handset set with some form of incendiary device that melts there face and arms of immediately
I agree - it cannot be beyond the wit of man to set up a number of operations, with tracked phones, video surveillence, and tagging devices to catch entire gangs "at work" Maybe a nice handset set with some form of incendiary device that melts there face and arms of immediately
Why the Police don't do this - I don't understand
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