The Gender Non-binary debate.

[Davos123]

xjay1337 said:

I know that. I have said before.
You may use the term gender to give whatever label you want but, talking about relationships and shagging etc I care about your sex not your gender.

So I won't be sleeping with a trans woman thank you :-)
Willfully or unwillingly...!

Great, so you agree a trans woman is a woman then?

[xjay1337]

Davos123 said:

Great, so you agree a trans woman is a woman then?

No, she is a trans-woman

Woman - genetically a woman
Trans woman - genetic man that has decided to live life as a woman

That's a difference.

On cars -

Ferrari - a sports car
Toyota mr2 - not a sports car
Toyota mr2 with a ferrari bodykit - not a sports car, but looks like one :-)

[Hungrymc]

Davos123 said:

xjay1337 said:

If you are born a male with XY chromosomes and then undergo a transition to a female, you may have your wang chopped off and boobs added but genetically YOU ARE A MALE.

You can do all the womanly things you want. Go roller skating with your friends. Use the female toilets. Etc.
You may have the mindset of a woman.
That's fine, go ahead. And power to you. As I've already said.

But GENETICALLY YOU ARE A MAN - So I'm not going to change science to suit your outlook.

I will accept your choosing to claim your gender as female. No issues
But your SEX is male and that is ultimately what you are.

The problem here is that you keep on using male and female interchangeably with men and women. They are not the same thing. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

I’m here to learn, and I really have had to consider some very different aspects to those which I’ve been exposed to previously.

Can you help me understand what’s incorrect in Xjays comments?

If he had said in the first paragraph that “genetically you are a man”. Would that be OK as it’s a reference to sex and not gender?

The second quoted paragraph is describing somoeone who identifies as female gender? Is OK?

The 3rd paragraph is talking about sex again, is it OK or are there ongoing discussion about the legitimacy of sex being a genetic thing or determined by only specific physical characteristics ?

The final paragraph is using a gender term to describe sex? And hence incorrect / confusing?

Forgive my questions if they seem stupid, I’m only trying to understand the different perspectives on this and most of it is very new to me (lots of my assumptions were incorrect).

[gregs656]

xjay1337 said:

You may use the term gender to give whatever label you want but, talking about relationships and shagging etc I care about your sex not your gender.

By extension, you would have no problem sleeping with a trans man, then?

I just don't understand how you can think it would be totally straight to sleep with this person



and totally gay to sleep with this person



Don't get that logic.

Edit: also, your continued use of phrases like 'decided to' completely misrepresents the situation IMO.

[xjay1337]

gregs656 said:

By extension, you would have no problem sleeping with a trans man, then?

I just don't understand how you can this it would be totally straight to sleep with this person



and totally gay to sleep with this person

But the problem is most trans women look like this.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

I wouldn't personally sleep with any trans person, male or female. So the question is irrelevant .

I understand your point of view
We simply disagree. That's ok :-)
Not one of us is right and the other is wrong.

[xjay1337]

gregs656 said:

Edit: also, your continued use of phrases like 'decided to' completely misrepresents the situation IMO.

So does a born male not decide to "trans" into female ?
Or decide upon their gender, sexual preference, and other life style choices????

Educate me if that's wrong, seriously.

[Davos123]

xjay1337 said:

No, she is a trans-woman

Woman - genetically a woman
Trans woman - genetic man that has decided to live life as a woman

That's a difference.

The terms man and woman refer to gender.

Male and female refer to sex.

If you recognise that gender and sex are different, you must recognise a transwoman is a woman, not a man.

[Davos123]

xjay1337 said:

So I won't be sleeping with a trans woman thank you :-)
Willfully or unwillingly...!
I view that as gay.

It's not gay. There are presumably more than a few gay and bi people in this thread, if you want to understand if it's gay or not why wouldn't you just listen to what they say, since they obviously know more about sexual attraction for gay and bi people than you do.

If I slept with a transwoman it would be motivated by my attraction to women, not to men. I don't know any gay men who are attracted to transwomen.

[Aphex]

Davos123 said:

It's not gay. There are presumably more than a few gay and bi people in this thread, if you want to understand if it's gay or not why wouldn't you just listen to what they say, since they obviously know more about sexual attraction for gay and bi people than you do.

If I slept with a transwoman it would be motivated by my attraction to women, not to men.

What about the pee pee though

[xjay1337]

Davos123 said:

The terms man and woman refer to gender.

Male and female refer to sex.

If you recognise that gender and sex are different, you must recognise a transwoman is a woman, not a man.

So because my pronouns are not correct that means I don't understand?

I'm not an old bloke but I am simple.
I'll say man / male woman / female as interchangeable terms in conversation.

I recognise a trans woman as a trans woman.
But to me she will always be a man, genetically.
If that makes me a phobe or whatever, then so be it :/

[descentia]

'

Edited by descentia on Sunday 31st March 22:07

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

xjay1337 said:

gregs656 said:

By extension, you would have no problem sleeping with a trans man, then?

I just don't understand how you can this it would be totally straight to sleep with this person



and totally gay to sleep with this person

But the problem is most trans women look like this.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

I wouldn't personally sleep with any trans person, male or female. So the question is irrelevant .

I understand your point of view
We simply disagree. That's ok :-)
Not one of us is right and the other is wrong.

Sorry, but there can be varying degrees of attractiveness in any male, female OR trans. She wouldn't have been a massive looker as a male, and (to my mind) isn't a great looker as a female. Susan Boyle was AFAIK born a female, and I hold no attraction to her either. The (I presume) trans female posted above her is stunning in her own right.

21 years ago in Ibiza town there were 3 girls on the next outside bar table to us, and they were incredible looking, far hotter than the girl posted below the muscle pose guy. After some considerable time we were pretty sure that they were actually trans (it was years ago, my memory is hazy, Adams Apples?) and my (straight) friend - I know so, he's literally shagged hundreds of girls, and unless he's keeping it from me never a guy - said 'I don't care, I still would!

Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 21st February 21:14

[xjay1337]

Davos123 said:

xjay1337 said:

So I won't be sleeping with a trans woman thank you :-)
Willfully or unwillingly...!
I view that as gay.

It's not gay. There are presumably more than a few gay and bi people in this thread, if you want to understand if it's gay or not why wouldn't you just listen to what they say, since they obviously know more about sexual attraction for gay and bi people than you do.

If I slept with a transwoman it would be motivated by my attraction to women, not to men. I don't know any gay men who are attracted to transwomen.

It's gay to me...
That's my viewpoint, my opinion.

You can say you think it's not gay to sleep with a trans woman.
That's ok. I won't argue with you. So please don't argue with me when I say that I think it is !

I know more about my sexual preferences than someone else.
As they do for their own than I.

[xjay1337]

descentia said:

Well at least your Mrs seems to understand so there's hope for your education yet. Bit of thinking for you to do with that information though, I mean there's all those questions of her orientation now. If she is willing to date a trans man , then the dynamics of any sex aren't going to include a "real" penis. So what does that say about you ? Maybe the penis aspect of your relationship isn't the most important or has less imporatnce that you believe. And if the trans man stays without bottom surgery then it would seem she's comfortable with lesbian sex so does that mean she's bi ?

Hmmm something to contemplate which might bring you to realise it's not always that simple.

No thinking for me to do.
My mrs much prefers my tongue to my penis anyway so doesn't matter. :-)

If she was bi then she could get one of her fit mates over!!!!

[xjay1337]

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Sorry, but there can be varying degrees of attractiveness in any male, female OR trans. She wouldn't have been a massive looker as a male, and (to my mind) isn't a great looker as a female. Susan Boyle was AFAIK born a female, and I hold no attraction to her either. The (I presume) trans female is stunning in her own right too.

21 years ago in Ibiza town there were 3 girls on the next outside bar table to us, and they were incredible looking, far hotter than the girl posted below the muscle pose guy. After some considerable time we were pretty sure that they were actually trans (it was years ago, my memory is hazy, Adams Apples?) and my (straight) friend - I know so, he's literally shagged hundreds of girls, and unless he's keeping it from me never a guy - said 'I don't care, I still would!

I agree. I can see the viewpoint.
The trans woman in the spoiler above is pretty. But I personally wouldn't smash that. Wouldn't judge someone who did !! ;-)

[Clockwork Cupcake]

xjay1337 said:

But the problem is most trans women look like this.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...

I very much doubt you have done a lot of research on this, because they don't.

It's the stereotypical impression that a lot of people have. Including my mother about me, since she refuses to disabuse herself of this by actually looking at a photo of me.

The papers do very little to alter people's perceptions though, because "look at the ridiculous tranny" stories sell much better than "looks just like a woman" stories.

Go onto Flickr and you will see a lot of trans women who look very convincing. You might even stumble across my Flickr stream.

Mind you, having said that, you will also find a lot of pics on Flickr that reinforce your opinion too. But I certainly don't think it is valid to say that most trans women look like that because they most certainly do not

[gregs656]

xjay1337 said:

So does a born male not decide to "trans" into female ?
Or decide upon their gender, sexual preference, and other life style choices????

Educate me if that's wrong, seriously.

My point is no one chooses to be trans. It is not an aesthetic choice.

No one chooses their sexual preference.

These are not lifestyle choices.

[Davos123]

xjay1337 said:

It's gay to me...
That's my viewpoint, my opinion.

You can say you think it's not gay to sleep with a trans woman.
That's ok. I won't argue with you. So please don't argue with me when I say that I think it is !

I know more about my sexual preferences than someone else.
As they do for their own than I.

But you're not gay, seemingly have very little understanding of it, yet seem insistent on being able to define it.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

xjay1337 said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Sorry, but there can be varying degrees of attractiveness in any male, female OR trans. She wouldn't have been a massive looker as a male, and (to my mind) isn't a great looker as a female. Susan Boyle was AFAIK born a female, and I hold no attraction to her either. The (I presume) trans female is stunning in her own right too.

21 years ago in Ibiza town there were 3 girls on the next outside bar table to us, and they were incredible looking, far hotter than the girl posted below the muscle pose guy. After some considerable time we were pretty sure that they were actually trans (it was years ago, my memory is hazy, Adams Apples?) and my (straight) friend - I know so, he's literally shagged hundreds of girls, and unless he's keeping it from me never a guy - said 'I don't care, I still would!

I agree. I can see the viewpoint.
The trans woman in the spoiler above is pretty. But I personally wouldn't smash that. Wouldn't judge someone who did !! ;-)


I wouldn't either. If they were never told they'd probably be very glad of getting her in the sack.

It is OK for a trans woman to not be your bag. I can't however agree it's gay. I have a few very close gay friends, I go back to 10 years old with them both. I think the (possible) lack of a cock would put them off Trans girls, and the fact that they prefer the male form.

Edited by Fermit and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 21st February 21:23

[xjay1337]

gregs656 said:

My point is no one chooses to be trans. It is not an aesthetic choice.

No one chooses their sexual preference.

These are not lifestyle choices.

Ummm, it is a choice.
Everything in life is a choice.
From what you eat to who you sleep with. To who you fancy.

Not an aesthetic choice, no. It's a very important decision. But a decision never the less.

I'm sure CC was a "normal" male. Until she decided that she didn't want to be and began her journey of transitioning.