The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
There is no way to be sure of a baby's gender at birth. This is not me saying that but a midwife. There have been mistakes in the past which have given rise to considerable problems for the person involved so why try to identify at birth? And why should it matter?
Congratulations, it's a why should it matter!Our midwife didn't have any gender identification issues at the birth of our last. The consultant got it right before the birth too, at least, as far as I or anyone else can tell.
Spanna said:
I've driven both a TT and an MX-5 but I don't conform to the hairdresser gender. Sorry.
You'll also forgetting powerfully built company director. That's me thanks.
You'll also forgetting powerfully built company director. That's me thanks.
Male
Female
Other
Non-Identify
Powerfully built Company Director with Goatee [X]
Coming to paperwork near you?
As for the wider debate - I don't care. Call yourself what you want, do what you want BUT DON'T SHOUT IT IN MY FACE. You don't care about my ''strongly held views'' and I don't care about yours. Start shouting it from the rooftops, and crying foul at every flipping form that doesn't have sufficient tick boxes to wet your appetite and I quickly loose all patience/interest.
TurboHatchback said:
I'm afraid I just don't accept that 'gender' has any more meaning than the genitals you were born with. 'Identifying' is total b
ks to me, you are what you are. If I choose to 'identify' as black it doesn't make me black any more than 'identifying' as female would make me female.
You joke but...this woman has claimed she is "trans black". ks to me, you are what you are. If I choose to 'identify' as black it doesn't make me black any more than 'identifying' as female would make me female. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4425214/Wh...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/25/ra...
danllama said:
feef said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
So an individual who identifies as a woman, feels like a woman, has had surgery to make them, physiologically as much a woman as possible, and looks like a woman should be...patted down or searched by a man at airport security because that individual was born a man?
Sent to a male prison in the event of a crime?
If chose to serve in the military, would share bunk rooms or other group accommodation with men?
That's what the legal status would refer to, no?
IMO you don't get to choose your sex. Thats determined by your genes. End of.
21TonyK said:
I had no issue with any of it until my son told me he re-wrote an essay in his exam yesterday to be gender neutral in case he lost marks.
I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
How old is he, who taught him about gender neutrality and why did he feel he needed to reword his work?I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
As adults we can brush it off but kids can easily get confused by all this. He's had to adjust his thinking and work to conform to 0.1-0.3% of the population in fear of offending someone or someone who marks it being offended on their behalf.
Spanna said:
21TonyK said:
I had no issue with any of it until my son told me he re-wrote an essay in his exam yesterday to be gender neutral in case he lost marks.
I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
How old is he, who taught him about gender neutrality and why did he feel he needed to reword his work?I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
As adults we can brush it off but kids can easily get confused by all this. He's had to adjust his thinking and work to conform to 0.1-0.3% of the population in fear of offending someone or someone who marks it being offended on their behalf.
Trophy Husband said:
Spanna said:
21TonyK said:
I had no issue with any of it until my son told me he re-wrote an essay in his exam yesterday to be gender neutral in case he lost marks.
I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
How old is he, who taught him about gender neutrality and why did he feel he needed to reword his work?I suggested he ignore the 72 genders on facebook and focus on the real world.
As adults we can brush it off but kids can easily get confused by all this. He's had to adjust his thinking and work to conform to 0.1-0.3% of the population in fear of offending someone or someone who marks it being offended on their behalf.
I explained that it was primarily a lot of attention seekers who are identifying with the "latest greatest thing" and want to be special and unique and challenge "authority". Bit like when I was a kid we had punks, mods and casuals. It's something 99% of people would grow out of and only those who are genuine would still feel all their life.
21TonyK said:
He's 16, his school has LGBT groups etc etc. He's sensible enough to make up his own mind and have his own opinions but was concerned that he could lose marks in his GCSE if he didn't conform to what he feels the media is portraying as being "correct".
I explained that it was primarily a lot of attention seekers who are identifying with the "latest greatest thing" and want to be special and unique and challenge "authority". Bit like when I was a kid we had punks, mods and casuals. It's something 99% of people would grow out of and only those who are genuine would still feel all their life.
A great answer. I think fashion is another way of putting it for a lot of these people. I explained that it was primarily a lot of attention seekers who are identifying with the "latest greatest thing" and want to be special and unique and challenge "authority". Bit like when I was a kid we had punks, mods and casuals. It's something 99% of people would grow out of and only those who are genuine would still feel all their life.
Atleast they won't breed, none of them are women
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Ari said:
I think a side effect of all this is young adults latching on to this stuff as a way of explaining away their issues.
I know a couple of people (offspring of friends) who seem to have had social issues growing up, seem unable to make or maintain friends or build much of a life for themselves. Now maybe it is because they have identity issues. I strongly suspect however that it's because they're a bit selfish, rather lazy and somewhat misguided.
But they've decided that they have 'gender issues' and that's the root of their problems, rather than making any effort to actually improve their lives and social skills.
Label applied, excuse made, nothing further needed.
"The operative model is not 'I think therefore I am,' but 'I am a victim therefore I am.'I know a couple of people (offspring of friends) who seem to have had social issues growing up, seem unable to make or maintain friends or build much of a life for themselves. Now maybe it is because they have identity issues. I strongly suspect however that it's because they're a bit selfish, rather lazy and somewhat misguided.
But they've decided that they have 'gender issues' and that's the root of their problems, rather than making any effort to actually improve their lives and social skills.
Label applied, excuse made, nothing further needed.
I refer to this condition as collective Munchausen, namely, the pathological quest for sympathy and empathy by proclaiming victim status by using identity politics and intersectionality."
- Gad Saad
Attach a label and call yourself a victim - whether the label is appropriate is irrelevant.
That's not to say that there aren't people with genuine issues, just that a lot of people are attaching a convenient label to avoid having to deal with their own difficulties.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Are you familiar with the issues and protests at UoT (and elsewhere) regarding Dr. Peterson / bill C16 featured in the OP video?
I don't doubt that the majority of LGBT people simply want to get on with their lives as any one else does.
If only it were that simple across the board.
Yes indeed and I am very supportive of Dr Peterson as it happens. I don't doubt that the majority of LGBT people simply want to get on with their lives as any one else does.
If only it were that simple across the board.
While I am very comfortable with gender fluidity, the insistence on a new form of grammar to apply to all people is to me political correctness gone completely mad and I am not about to abandon using terms like "he" or "she" and replace them with nonsense like "ze". I think a male should be called 'he" a female "she", and a TG person whatever gender that the person has chosen to be.
alock said:
Anyone know how this non-binary gender stuff is impacting languages formed around binary gender for nouns?
As an example, are there new words in French to supplement 'le' and 'la'?
That's a great question, and it might surprise you to learn that the Germans are particularly progressive in this regard - they're identified by the collective noun "ze Germans"As an example, are there new words in French to supplement 'le' and 'la'?
Edited by PBDirector on Wednesday 17th May 22:17
Spanna said:
21TonyK said:
He's 16, his school has LGBT groups etc etc. He's sensible enough to make up his own mind and have his own opinions but was concerned that he could lose marks in his GCSE if he didn't conform to what he feels the media is portraying as being "correct".
I explained that it was primarily a lot of attention seekers who are identifying with the "latest greatest thing" and want to be special and unique and challenge "authority". Bit like when I was a kid we had punks, mods and casuals. It's something 99% of people would grow out of and only those who are genuine would still feel all their life.
A great answer. I think fashion is another way of putting it for a lot of these people. I explained that it was primarily a lot of attention seekers who are identifying with the "latest greatest thing" and want to be special and unique and challenge "authority". Bit like when I was a kid we had punks, mods and casuals. It's something 99% of people would grow out of and only those who are genuine would still feel all their life.
Atleast they won't breed, none of them are women
Hull university threatens to mark down students who don't use gender neutral pronouns.
This thinking is in the UK today.
If you have children in school or heading to university, this is something that should be looked into with some care.
Here is a related example from Canada;
Alberta parents not to be told if children join gay-straight alliances: education minister
The gender unicorn is also thriving in the cattle ranch/oil field landscape;
Teachers’ union urges schools to host drag shows, use ‘comrade’ instead of ‘boy’ and ‘girl’
Prism Toolkit document(pdf)
From the second headline one might easily begin to draw certain conclusions that are of course quite crazy(?).
Yes, I am pointing to calling your fellow students 'comrade'.
For some background, the ruling (in Alberta) NDP party (formed nationally in 1961) has always been the choice of union leaders and teachers, many of whom in the early days were openly spouting their Marxist ideology and support for the Soviet Union.
Another factor one may consider important when choosing universities to apply to, and I fully realise the options may be fairly narrow for some people, is the Free Speech University Rankings.
Click the 'Results' on the top menu bar for the rankings.
Derek Smith said:
I can't see the problem. Call yourself whatever you want, including a title that does not reflect any gender at all.
I reckon we should have not differentiation with sex. It should be enshrined in law. You are a person and that's it. Anything else is superfluous. Do away with male, female, transgender and the rest of the nice differentiations. It's given enough problems in the past.
I reckon we should have not differentiation with sex. It should be enshrined in law. You are a person and that's it. Anything else is superfluous. Do away with male, female, transgender and the rest of the nice differentiations. It's given enough problems in the past.
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