The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
NorfolkInClue1 said:
I'd love to comment and give my views
What a tragic loss to the world that you haven't. I'm sure your views would be really interesting as well. If they are anything like those of George Smiley then we could enjoy another 20 pages of repressed sexual fantasies played out as demented hypothetical situations.
As for those of you still engaging with Noodle the pound shop Jordan Peterson, you have astounding patience.
_dobbo_ said:
What a tragic loss to the world that you haven't. I'm sure your views would be really interesting as well.
If they are anything like those of George Smiley then we could enjoy another 20 pages of repressed sexual fantasies played out as demented hypothetical situations.
As for those of you still engaging with Noodle the pound shop Jordan Peterson, you have astounding patience.
That's a bit of a rip off, Discount Jp's are Ten a penny around here.If they are anything like those of George Smiley then we could enjoy another 20 pages of repressed sexual fantasies played out as demented hypothetical situations.
As for those of you still engaging with Noodle the pound shop Jordan Peterson, you have astounding patience.
Noodle1982 said:
8.4L 154 said:
Noodle1982 said:
What about when it comes to disabilities?
Do people with down syndrome have white male privilege? Or dwarfs? or blind people? or deaf people?
Do gay people have it? do homeless people have it? do people born into poverty have it?
I feel that who ever came up with the whole white male privilege tagline didn't really think it through.
There needs to be a check list drawn up for folk like me to cross check each day.
Take all those people and compare them to people with equivalent circumstances who are neither male or white and i think you will find that on every level in comparative circumstances white male privilege is real.Do people with down syndrome have white male privilege? Or dwarfs? or blind people? or deaf people?
Do gay people have it? do homeless people have it? do people born into poverty have it?
I feel that who ever came up with the whole white male privilege tagline didn't really think it through.
There needs to be a check list drawn up for folk like me to cross check each day.
Only an idiot would try to say it doesn't by trying to claim for it to be so unless every white male has to be in better privileged position to any one single non white cis female
Actually I take that back. EJ Johnson is benefiting from his dad's money. But he is still a he at this moment in time...
White men who transition have an easier time, due to different family outlooks, as most black families due to religious beliefs would be dead against such life choices.
It occasionally of benefit to be black in a particular situation is not the same as privilege in the same way that women having it better in specific areas doesn't mean we don't live in a patriarchy. Power is massively disproportionately concentrated in the hands of whites and cis males and they show an ongoing bias and preference for one another over other races and genders. That is what it means to have privilege, to exist within a system which has, and continues to benefit people who look like you over others.
I don't see why this is hard to acknowledge. It's not saying that white people and men are bad or their own struggles aren't valid and worthy or not worthy of consideration, it's just that we have a life with less oppression, discrimination and barriers than others.
I don't see why this is hard to acknowledge. It's not saying that white people and men are bad or their own struggles aren't valid and worthy or not worthy of consideration, it's just that we have a life with less oppression, discrimination and barriers than others.
Davos123 said:
It occasionally of benefit to be black in a particular situation is not the same as privilege in the same way that women having it better in specific areas doesn't mean we don't live in a patriarchy. Power is massively disproportionately concentrated in the hands of whites and cis males and they show an ongoing bias and preference for one another over other races and genders. That is what it means to have privilege, to exist within a system which has, and continues to benefit people who look like you over others.
I don't see why this is hard to acknowledge. It's not saying that white people and men are bad or their own struggles aren't valid and worthy or not worthy of consideration, it's just that we have a life with less oppression, discrimination and barriers than others.
If you don't mind the cliche of being better at sport, or want to get into rap or drill music just because you're black, or the cliche of having bigger tackle and muscles... but I guess those muscles can be put to good use outrunning overweight police officers weighed down with stab vests, asps and tasers when they are chasing you for a crime you've been allegedly accused of (or someone who might look a bit like you)... Employment opportunities (for an experiment, submit 2 CVs to the same recruiter, one with an African sounding name, one with an English name with same qualifications, and see who gets shortlisted first), poor peers and lack of decent role models (see Knives Again thread) mean it's not a walk in the park. And that's as a straight male.I don't see why this is hard to acknowledge. It's not saying that white people and men are bad or their own struggles aren't valid and worthy or not worthy of consideration, it's just that we have a life with less oppression, discrimination and barriers than others.
Throw trans into the mix, and see hostility from family, friends, relatives and fellow black people on the streets unless you are from (dad's) money like EJ Johnson mentioned before. You will rarely find black people transitioning, even Billy Porter, for all his tuxedo gowns, skirts etc, like EJ Johnson just won't as it's just not the done thing. There's more to lose, especially if you don't have much in the first place.
So yes, it is easier for white people, despite 304 pages of arguing on this thread
It's a curious topic, but those I have seen (barring Laverne Cox) still look like guys (see Bruce Jenner), and have lost contact with family and children as a result. I guess most who stumbled on to this thread are just trying to make sense of it all
Edited by The Li-ion King on Sunday 31st March 02:28
Davos123 said:
Power is massively disproportionately concentrated in the hands of whites and cis males
So would you agree that it's the white male that we can thank for all the rights that trans people have these days? You know, because it's mainly white males in power making these decisions.
The Li-ion King said:
Kind of.
Actually I take that back. EJ Johnson is benefiting from his dad's money. But he is still a he at this moment in time...
White men who transition have an easier time, due to different family outlooks, as most black families due to religious beliefs would be dead against such life choices.
I completely agree with that last bit. That would imply that there is white trans privilege.Actually I take that back. EJ Johnson is benefiting from his dad's money. But he is still a he at this moment in time...
White men who transition have an easier time, due to different family outlooks, as most black families due to religious beliefs would be dead against such life choices.
What I'm getting at is that no matter who you are or where you are there is someone getting a s
ttier deal than you, therefore giving you more privileges over them. Yet all you hear is white privilege.This is going off topic slightly so I shall revert back to the trans debate.
That'll have to wait though as I've got a golf tournament this morning.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
George Smiley said:
Noodles there’s no debate, don’t try and impart your logic or reasoning you’ll just get beaten down as I was
On the contrary, you're just miffed that there *is* debate rather than everyone just sharing your outdated worldview and agreeing with you.All your logic and reasoning has been rebuffed with people showing your logic being flawed and your reasoning not being based on reality or probability.
So not so much beaten down as just beaten.
I actually asked genuine questions and rather than challenge and debate the response from others (yourself to a much lesser extent) was almost like stereotypical drama queens.
Disentia displayed a cold and somewhat worrying mental approach and dobbo thought I was whacking off to a scenario.
It’s almost like when someone from the snp gets up at question time - they are recognised and therefore valid but they counter argue with distraction techniques and bulls
t. Almost like when parents say “you can’t understand you don’t have kids” Noodle1982 said:
What I'm getting at is that no matter who you are or where you are there is someone getting a sttier deal than you, therefore giving you more privileges over them. Yet all you hear is white privilege.
That can’t be true, someone, somewhere must be getting the worst deal. ttier deal than you, therefore giving you more privileges over them. Yet all you hear is white privilege.Also, it is a generalisation. Take any generalisation and you can point out micro examples that buck the trend.
gregs656 said:
Noodle1982 said:
What I'm getting at is that no matter who you are or where you are there is someone getting a sttier deal than you, therefore giving you more privileges over them. Yet all you hear is white privilege.
That can’t be true, someone, somewhere must be getting the worst deal. ttier deal than you, therefore giving you more privileges over them. Yet all you hear is white privilege.
How does the administration of the official change (reassignment? What's the right phrase??) go? Is there a fixed day where you arrange for passports, licenses etc to be switched to show the alternative/preferred gender? Is there kind of a whole new official "birth" day where Steve ends and Sue begins?
OpulentBob said:
How does the administration of the official change (reassignment? What's the right phrase??) go? Is there a fixed day where you arrange for passports, licenses etc to be switched to show the alternative/preferred gender? Is there kind of a whole new official "birth" day where Steve ends and Sue begins?
Currently the defacto governmental recognition of a change of gender is a gender recognition certificate.The problem with those is that they follow a bit of an outdated structure that assumes every trans person transitions in the same way and can get (and wants) the prerequisite treatment and surgeries quickly, which isn't how things work.
Knowing the waitlist times and some of the processes, you're probably looking at about 5 years at the quickest for that process from first referral to a certificate, and that's following the 'ideal' route of transitioning in the eyes of the NHS with minimal delays, but almost certainly longer (if ever).
You can change markers on documents such as a driving license with a deed pool and/or a doctor's note confirming the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Banks, utilities and other places are generally accepting with a deed poll.
Protections under the Equality Act kick in when a person purposes that they will go through the process of gender reassignment until a Gender recognition certificate is issued, but that leaves many trans people in a limbo where they cannot be discriminated against for being trans, but aren't seen entirely as their gender until the long process of GRC is completed, or potentially ever if you are deemed to be 'Not trans enough' or are something other than binary trans.
NorfolkInClue1 said:
It's Twitter, context is an alien concept, complete idiot is the prerequisite qualification to hold an account.
It's a cesspit of sociopaths, nothing more.
I've followed this topic with interest, I'd love to comment and give my views but sadly, George Smiley is correct.
There is very little point engaging with posters such as cupcake, it's a one way street. It's sad really, I'm sure a lot can be learned but when individuals utterly refuse to give ground or concede in a debate but would rather "talk at you" until you give up then it's a waste of time.
It has,at times, only served to confirm some incorrect stereotypes rather than educate.
A fine topic wasted...........
I've read several of your posts on the EU thread, and now on here, and whether deliberately or not, you are coming across as a very unpleasant individual.It's a cesspit of sociopaths, nothing more.
I've followed this topic with interest, I'd love to comment and give my views but sadly, George Smiley is correct.
There is very little point engaging with posters such as cupcake, it's a one way street. It's sad really, I'm sure a lot can be learned but when individuals utterly refuse to give ground or concede in a debate but would rather "talk at you" until you give up then it's a waste of time.
It has,at times, only served to confirm some incorrect stereotypes rather than educate.
A fine topic wasted...........
I know you won't take this on board, or care, but it's worth pointing out regardless.
BigMon said:
NorfolkInClue1 said:
It's Twitter, context is an alien concept, complete idiot is the prerequisite qualification to hold an account.
It's a cesspit of sociopaths, nothing more.
I've followed this topic with interest, I'd love to comment and give my views but sadly, George Smiley is correct.
There is very little point engaging with posters such as cupcake, it's a one way street. It's sad really, I'm sure a lot can be learned but when individuals utterly refuse to give ground or concede in a debate but would rather "talk at you" until you give up then it's a waste of time.
It has,at times, only served to confirm some incorrect stereotypes rather than educate.
A fine topic wasted...........
I've read several of your posts on the EU thread, and now on here, and whether deliberately or not, you are coming across as a very unpleasant individual.It's a cesspit of sociopaths, nothing more.
I've followed this topic with interest, I'd love to comment and give my views but sadly, George Smiley is correct.
There is very little point engaging with posters such as cupcake, it's a one way street. It's sad really, I'm sure a lot can be learned but when individuals utterly refuse to give ground or concede in a debate but would rather "talk at you" until you give up then it's a waste of time.
It has,at times, only served to confirm some incorrect stereotypes rather than educate.
A fine topic wasted...........
I know you won't take this on board, or care, but it's worth pointing out regardless.
George Smiley said:
don't be deliberately obtuse
To be fair I think you are having your cake and eating it there. Either you can *always* tell the 'OEM' gender of someone, in which case this doesn't matter, or you can't, in which case ID could be used fraudulently by someone appearing as the gender on the ID they want to use anyway.New Zealand did a report on this.
Here are the up sides and downsides as they found:
3. KEY COSTS OF CHANGE
3.1 Removing the requirement to display a holder’s gender on travel documents would complicate
the operations of border authorities. Some border authorities use the gender field as an input into risk
assessment before passengers arrive and to identify passengers travelling through border points.
3.2 Changing the requirement would impose significant costs on border authorities. Border control
software would need to be upgraded and modified to handle travel documents that do not display the
holder’s gender.
3.3 The complications to border operations may have a corresponding effect of longer check in times
for passengers and people encountering problems when travelling on a travel document that does not
display their gender.
4. KEY BENEFITS OF CHANGE
4.1 Border authorities would not have to deal with passengers travelling on a travel document
displaying a gender that does not reflect the holder’s identity. Transgender passengers would be less
likely to encounter problems travelling.
4.2 Issuance offices may not have to collect gender information about applicants and would issue
fewer travel documents with incorrect biodata information.
4.3 Removing the mandatory requirement to display a holder’s gender on travel documents could
pre-empt calls for change and show ICAO is a future focused organisation.
They concluded that the financial cost was too great.
Nothing explicitly about fraud, though.
Full report here - https://www.icao.int/Meetings/TAG-MRTD/Documents/T...
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