The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
George Smiley said:
8.4L 154 said:
George Smiley said:
8.4L 154 said:
gregs656 said:
Seems like a weird one. In the article she says she would say (and it doesn’t suggest she was lying at the time) that the help she was receiving was helping her with suicidal thoughts, and that at the time she felt like she was going down the correct path and wouldn’t have listened to contrary advice.
Bit difficult to now say her situation should have been handled differently, essentially she is saying her drs shouldn’t have taken seriously about her suicidal thoughts or really anything that was part of her assessment.
That doesn’t seem realistic to me.
We know there is a distinction between gender dysphoria and being transgender, these cases highlight that.
As some one else said, no winners here - not until we are better at distinguishing gender dysphoria from being transgender.
The goal of the anti trans campaigners is to stop all treatment. they will consider that a win if they overturn Gillick competence in trans health care and maybe wider sexual health and contraceptive care for minorsBit difficult to now say her situation should have been handled differently, essentially she is saying her drs shouldn’t have taken seriously about her suicidal thoughts or really anything that was part of her assessment.
That doesn’t seem realistic to me.
We know there is a distinction between gender dysphoria and being transgender, these cases highlight that.
As some one else said, no winners here - not until we are better at distinguishing gender dysphoria from being transgender.
You can consent to medical treatment at age 16 along with joining the army, consenting to sex and riding a moped, (not all at the same time)
8.4L 154 said:
...
As for the case, the anti trans campaigners have been longing to bring this to court for ages, its unlikely anything good will come of it for either this person, trans kids or the wider trans community. Its interesting to see the lack of support they seem to have with the wider public though.
There are too many agendas on both sides of the debate for anything truly good to come of it IMO. As with many polarising dilemmas.As for the case, the anti trans campaigners have been longing to bring this to court for ages, its unlikely anything good will come of it for either this person, trans kids or the wider trans community. Its interesting to see the lack of support they seem to have with the wider public though.
As for public support, extreme care needs to be taken on how this is being assessed. Again, on such polarising topics there really is no way of knowing as the "man on the Clapham omnibus" (or whatever the modern version of the quaint phrase is) cannot be heard over the baying of the extremes.
All of which is a massive shame, but I see no way of these things ever being properly resolved - mutually exclusive requirements
My brother came out to me last night as trans.
He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
Oakey said:
My brother came out to me last night as trans.
He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
Shouldn't that be your sister?He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
Oakey said:
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
I'm pretty sure it won't come out of nowhere for her. She's probably been bottling it up for years, not telling any of you, and successfully keeping it from you. When I came out to my mum she told me to my face that I was wrong. When I cited examples from my childhood, she pooh-poohed them. She pretty much put me on trial with me having to present evidence, and then decreed each was inadmissible. Nothing I said was accepted as being evidence of prior warning, so to her it was "out of nowhere".
So, in short, it may be "out of nowhere" to you but I would bet money that it is not "out of nowhere" for your sibling.
Oakey said:
I know you're joking but my mum and sister are already referring to him as 'she' and 'her' and I still haven't got my head around it.
Evidently, as you are still insisting on saying "he" and "him". Oakey said:
My brother came out to me last night as trans.
He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
I kept it to myself for decades, not one person saw it coming when i came out. It took those multiple decades to accept it myself even though i knew from a very young age.He's a woman trapped in a mans body who's still sexually interested in women. He's currently transitioning (hormones to grow boobs, changed his name, not having surgery though). None of that bothers me really, I guess he thought it would as he told our mum and sister first and held back telling me and our father.
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
Not quite sure how I tell my young kids they've lost an uncle and gained an aunt though.
Biggest issue with my nephew and nieces were my nephew was sad he wouldn't get to play games and techy toys with me, reassuring him that wouldn't be a problem cheered him up and resolved the problem. its better not to view it as lost and gained but more like she is the same person just changing, we all change over time anyway.
p2c said:
Biggest issue with my nephew and nieces were my nephew was sad he wouldn't get to play games and techy toys with me, reassuring him that wouldn't be a problem cheered him up and resolved the problem. its better not to view it as lost and gained but more like she is the same person just changing, we all change over time anyway.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Do you know how much psychological assessment was undertaken before the hormones were dished out?
No, sorry.Clockwork Cupcake said:
Oakey said:
What surprises me is that this has all come out of nowhere. According to my mum this isn't something he's been harbouring since he's a kid and there's never been any hint this is how he felt, this is only something that's come about over the last couple of years.
I'm pretty sure it won't come out of nowhere for her. She's probably been bottling it up for years, not telling any of you, and successfully keeping it from you. When I came out to my mum she told me to my face that I was wrong. When I cited examples from my childhood, she pooh-poohed them. She pretty much put me on trial with me having to present evidence, and then decreed each was inadmissible. Nothing I said was accepted as being evidence of prior warning, so to her it was "out of nowhere".
So, in short, it may be "out of nowhere" to you but I would bet money that it is not "out of nowhere" for your sibling.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Oakey said:
I know you're joking but my mum and sister are already referring to him as 'she' and 'her' and I still haven't got my head around it.
Evidently, as you are still insisting on saying "he" and "him". Oakey said:
Like I said, this isn't something he's been harbouring since he was a child. There are no examples form his childhood to be cited. This is something that's occurred over the last 5-10 years ish? He's been cross dressing for a while now apparently.
Yeah, 5-10 years certainly is "out of nowhere" isn't it. 
Clockwork Cupcake said:
It's not even been 24 hours since I found out ffs, get a grip.
I think you're the one who needs to get a grip, and consider how hurtful it is to deliberately misgender someone. Clockwork Cupcake said:
Oakey said:
Like I said, this isn't something he's been harbouring since he was a child. There are no examples form his childhood to be cited. This is something that's occurred over the last 5-10 years ish? He's been cross dressing for a while now apparently.
Yeah, 5-10 years certainly is "out of nowhere" isn't it. Clockwork Cupcake said:
It's not even been 24 hours since I found out ffs, get a grip.
I think you're the one who needs to get a grip, and consider how hurtful it is to deliberately misgender someone. 
king spokesperson or did you decide to speak on their behalf of your own accord?Stay in Bed Instead said:
Ah, gender top trumps.
As I said, I've been there and experienced it. I may have expressed it rather brusquely, and for that I apologise, but it really can feel very hurtful when you come out and you are rejected / rebuffed. And doggedly refusing to modify the pronouns used is a continual confirmation that the person has not accepted you.
It may feel like not a big deal, but I can assure you it is.
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