The Gender Non-binary debate.

[George Smiley]

8.4L 154 said:

You don't own your children. They will be who they are and a parents job is to love them no matter what they are dealt. You have no right to a son or daughter or to keep them as a son or daughter.

Putting words in my mouth again

I never said I owned her but I would grieve if she did transition as rightly so I would have lost a daughter gained a stranger albeit with her memories

[George Smiley]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

George... please don't work your way through a thread replying to each and every post as you read it. If you'd brought yourself up to date with the thread and then crafted a reply with the full picture, you'd see that I have already apologised for going in all guns blazing.

When have I ever read beyond the post I’m going all gammon over!

Seen your apology and now I apologise to you

Sorry

[bitchstewie]

George Smiley said:

Putting words in my mouth again

I never said I owned her but I would grieve if she did transition as rightly so I would have lost a daughter gained a stranger albeit with her memories

I think most people understand that as a parent it can be difficult but "gained a stranger" really?

Christ.

[George Smiley]

bhstewie said:

George Smiley said:

Putting words in my mouth again

I never said I owned her but I would grieve if she did transition as rightly so I would have lost a daughter gained a stranger albeit with her memories

I think most people understand that as a parent it can be difficult but "gained a stranger" really?

Christ.

As Philip schofields wife

Of course it’s a stranger, same person just not the same

[popeyewhite]

bhstewie said:

George Smiley said:

Putting words in my mouth again

I never said I owned her but I would grieve if she did transition as rightly so I would have lost a daughter gained a stranger albeit with her memories

I think most people understand that as a parent it can be difficult but "gained a stranger" really?

Christ.

Thank God you don't work with the public in a health/welfare capacity.

[gregs656]

George Smiley said:

As Philip schofields wife

Of course it’s a stranger, same person just not the same

No they are the same, you just know something more about them. It might change your view of them, it might change their view of themselves once they start sharing (this is common, I think). But the person hasn't actually changed.

If Philip Schofield never told anyone he was gay, he would still be gay.

[rover 623gsi]

get out of jail free card

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

Transgender shoplifter spared jail when there is ‘no way to confirm her gender’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

[George Smiley]

gregs656 said:

No they are the same, you just know something more about them. It might change your view of them, it might change their view of themselves once they start sharing (this is common, I think). But the person hasn't actually changed.

If Philip Schofield never told anyone he was gay, he would still be gay.

If she has a new voice, face, physique, penis - are you suggesting any parent would be overjoyed and not see it as a sort of death?

My view is different to yours, doesn’t make it less valid or mean the feelings I would have would be wrong.

[George Smiley]

rover 623gsi said:

get out of jail free card

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

Transgender shoplifter spared jail when there is ‘no way to confirm her gender’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

You can’t go round claiming to be one sex without having it confirmed. Send him to a male prison

[gregs656]

I don't think I need to elaborate on what I said.

[8.4L 154]

rover 623gsi said:

get out of jail free card

https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

Transgender shoplifter spared jail when there is ‘no way to confirm her gender’


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/27/transgender-shoplif...

Kind of stupid really, HMPS had a set of guidelines for such a situation which were put in place after several trans women deaths in custody and which would have seen her incarcerated, however due to the Karen White disaster which was the result of and confirmed to be HMPS not following those procedure, but none the less resulted in a media and gender critical frenzy, not to get the procedure followed but to cast them to the scrap heap entirely leaving HMPS with no idea how to proceed in this case. It was kind of inevitable and not the fault of trans people we ended up here.

[rover 623gsi]

do you have a view on male rapists being incarcerated in women's prisons?

[Clockwork Cupcake]

rover 623gsi said:

do you have a view on male rapists being incarcerated in women's prisons?

I have a view that you love to deluge these threads with "What About If"-isms to continue your well-documented transphobia that has had you banned from these threads several times now.

[8.4L 154]

rover 623gsi said:

do you have a view on male rapists being incarcerated in women's prisons?

My view is that under the discarded guidelines a transgender female prisoner with a history/sentence of sexual violence or rape would have been assessed and incarcerated as a high risk female inmate and housed in the same manner as any other high risk female prisoner, likely in a male high risk establishment but under female conditions.

Part of the assessment process (for all transgender prisoners) was to determine the transition status of the prisoner to determine 1) if they were genuine, 2) have a medical history and documentation of living in role, 3) their risk to other prisoners, and a finally determination of if they should be transferred/housed in the female estate and where or remain in the male estate.

But that was all thrown in the bin and now courts/hmps haven't got a clue what to do other than strip search genital inspections or send everyone to the male estate which has already been found to be in breach of human rights and led to deaths of inmates.

[George Smiley]

Whatever happened to nolar? She was lovely but had a chequered past pre transition. By lovely I mean Jamie lee Curtis lovely

[wst]

8.4L 154 said:

documentation of living in role

The stumbling point for me is this - what does that mean exactly in a society where we've been (working on) obliterating gender roles? Does documenting "living in role" risk creating a legal code of what "living as a man" and "living as a woman" actually means - baking stereotypes into the law? And then what if someone goes "I'm still a bloke... I just like <these things that are baked in as "living as a woman" activities>"?

[Astacus]

George Smiley said:

Whatever happened to nolar? She was lovely but had a chequered past pre transition. By lovely I mean Jamie lee Curtis lovely

I think she got banned. Possibly for having multiple logins running at the same time. Was quite a while ago

[George Smiley]

Astacus said:

George Smiley said:

Whatever happened to nolar? She was lovely but had a chequered past pre transition. By lovely I mean Jamie lee Curtis lovely

I think she got banned. Possibly for having multiple logins running at the same time. Was quite a while ago

Thats a shame.

[George Smiley]

wst said:

8.4L 154 said:

documentation of living in role

The stumbling point for me is this - what does that mean exactly in a society where we've been (working on) obliterating gender roles? Does documenting "living in role" risk creating a legal code of what "living as a man" and "living as a woman" actually means - baking stereotypes into the law? And then what if someone goes "I'm still a bloke... I just like <these things that are baked in as "living as a woman" activities>"?

Living as a man = putting up with constant patriarchal crap spouted in Womans Hour on R4 whilst working every hour until we die at a later retirement age

Living as a woman = having your cake, eating it, then getting everyone to agree how much bds men are then getting days named after your gender, billions of woman this woman that awards and still expecting to retire earlier and be paid equally whilst ignoring that women do get paid more than men in general and especially at the start of their careers which they then give up on for a few years whilst farting out another baby

[8.4L 154]

wst said:

8.4L 154 said:

documentation of living in role

The stumbling point for me is this - what does that mean exactly in a society where we've been (working on) obliterating gender roles? Does documenting "living in role" risk creating a legal code of what "living as a man" and "living as a woman" actually means - baking stereotypes into the law? And then what if someone goes "I'm still a bloke... I just like <these things that are baked in as "living as a woman" activities>"?

Well funny you should say that as 2 years documentary evidence of living in role is the current GRA requirement. Trans people asking for that criteria to be removed and GRA reform to a legal statutory declaration was what upset the gender critical / anti trans lot in the first place. Well actually they have been against trans people since forever, it just really pissed them off when trans people asked for self determination over conformance to stereotypes, which is actually a really feminist thing rather than where the gc's have gone by narrowly defining womanhood by large gametes or dictionary definitions and policing who looks womanly enough.