The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[hidetheelephants]

HairyPoppins said:

The point I'm making is that all forms of energy extraction or creation and storage are inherently dangerous - some much-much more so than others.

Wind farms are much further down the scale than the likes of Coal, Oil and Nuclear.

Except that's not true; nuclear power is easily the safest energy source available in the UK. Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

[Ali G]

hidetheelephants said:

Except that's not true; nuclear power is easily the safest energy source available in the UK. Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

Forgetting that this form of energy is banned by the greenpeas - sod democracy.

[turbobloke]

Ali G said:

hidetheelephants said:

Except that's not true; nuclear power is easily the safest energy source available in the UK. Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

Forgetting that this form of energy is banned by the greenpeas - sod democracy.

Hmmm greenpeas and nuclear power, somebody should [insert alarmist and armageddonist factoid here] as long as it's not an activist who may well forget about filling in the insertion.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/123943/greenp...

Bunch of clowns.

[rolando]

turbobloke said:

Hmmm greenpeas and nuclear power, somebody should [insert alarmist and armageddonist factoid here] as long as it's not an activist who may well forget about filling in the insertion.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/123943/greenp...

Bunch of clowns.

Absolute idiots. Moan about everything that works and back the useless cr@p. Every one of them should be packed off to live in caves so that the rest of us can get on with the 21st century.

[LongQ]

Greenpeace can modify thier standards when it suits them to do so.

The North Hoyle Wind farm was developed by nPower and Greenpeace. nPower being part of RWE who were at the time (maybe still are?) operators of Nuclear plants in Germany.

Greenpeace sold out after a couple of years presumably because it was a fiscally good time to do so..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1447315/Fir...

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/fe...

https://www.campbellsci.eu/wales-wind

Edited by LongQ on Friday 24th November 17:44

[Ali G]

greenpeas is an activist pressure group, funded by trustafarians, with an awareness of legislation, but not of democracy.

Some good has been accomplished, much more harm will occur thanks to greenpeas.

[V8 Fettler]

The statistical evidence to date indicates that British AGRs should reach retirement with an unbeatable safety record.

[silentbrown]

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

[V8 Fettler]

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

Windscale was primarily a factory for making fissile material for nuclear weapons.

[PRTVR]

V8 Fettler said:

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

Windscale was primarily a factory for making fissile material for nuclear weapons.

And built at a time when H&S was non existent.

[V8 Fettler]

PRTVR said:

V8 Fettler said:

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

Windscale was primarily a factory for making fissile material for nuclear weapons.

And built at a time when H&S was non existent.

"You'll be OK as long as you don't fall" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXKnSptA7U

[turbobloke]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Are you advocating that Nuclear is safer in the whole than Wind Power ?

Advocating

[Gary C]

hidetheelephants said:

HairyPoppins said:

The point I'm making is that all forms of energy extraction or creation and storage are inherently dangerous - some much-much more so than others.

Wind farms are much further down the scale than the likes of Coal, Oil and Nuclear.

Except that's not true; nuclear power is easily the safest energy source available in the UK. Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

Think we had four deaths building our nuke.

Not had one during operation though.

[hidetheelephants]

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

Even if you allocate a mean of the contemporary worker death rates to uk plants' construction phase they will still be far safer than WTGs, nuclear power in the UK has not killed anyone while producing electricity. The Windscale pile was not a nuclear power station, it existed solely for the purpose of making fissile material for nuclear bombs. It's as relevant to this comparison as me claiming that every time Windy Miller was maimed or killed by unguarded rotating machinery in a windmill it proves WTGs are death traps.

[rolando]

hidetheelephants said:

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

Even if you allocate a mean of the contemporary worker death rates to uk plants' construction phase they will still be far safer than WTGs, nuclear power in the UK has not killed anyone while producing electricity. The Windscale pile was not a nuclear power station, it existed solely for the purpose of making fissile material for nuclear bombs. It's as relevant to this comparison as me claiming that every time Windy Miller was maimed or killed by unguarded rotating machinery in a windmill it proves WTGs are death traps.

How about a comparison in Fatalities per MW x capacity factor

[Gary C]

hidetheelephants said:

silentbrown said:

hidetheelephants said:

Quite a few people have died erecting and maintaining wind turbines, whereas nuclear power hasn't killed anyone yet.

I'd be amazed if there were no fatal construction accidents on nuclear plants. I think you're just guessing there, as much as I am...
Also, Windscale? : 33 fatalities estimated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_...

nuclear power in the UK has not killed anyone while producing electricity. .

Your wrong.

Sadly, very very wrong.

[hidetheelephants]

Gary C said:

Your wrong.

Sadly, very very wrong.

Could you point me at some literature?

On a vaguely related note last week I talked to a chap who works for a multinational pump maker; he's running a quite lucrative research contract for the US DoE/national lab system developing pumps for molten salts.

[wc98]

hidetheelephants said:

molten salts.

o/t but those two words still scare the life out of me a fair few years down the road from a small experimental test carried out in an industrial ceramic plant in thailand of all places. the explosion as a result of one drop of water into about 50 litres of molten salt at around 900c was interesting to say the least. only injury was to a colleague that had some small burns on their chest ,though due to good fortune the only long term damage was to his expensive shirt .

[StanleyT]

About 10 deaths at Sellafield or its staff in the 90s /2000s so the reprocessing side of generation had some effect.

Remember a guy at Heysham NPS being killled in early 2010s when he fell down some stairs and through a missing floor plate.

One guy was decommissioning the Windscale reactor and fell to his death 300ft down the inside of the chimney (Niel Hanron????) - some horrible rumours about what happened to the contaminated body and lead coffins. Four guys killed in a car accident Sellafield - AWE company business trip. A number of other deaths from construction / vehicle crush injuries.

I saw a report by a regulator I used to work for that statistically, Hinkley C will be responsible for 10 deaths prior to operation, again a few crush deaths from cranes / heavy lifts, a couple of direct car accidents for migrant staff travelling to the site and quite a few locals killed by construction traffic. One death predicted due to statistically "concrete fluid entombment". Eeek. (French forerunner project has had some of these deaths manifest).

Pales into comparison against the Manson-esque 1970s murder spree by Hydro-electric of a quarter of a million from dam collapses in China.

And I can't find it now but there is a rather macabre list of deaths from wind power, highlights being 6 US Navy personnel killed when their research ship investigating the effect of wind turbines on navigation in fog, crashed into a wind turbine in fog and sank, farmer killing anti-wind protesters on his land, tenant farmer committing suicide after wind turbines installed on his land and cattle yield dropped massively, Mexican drug cartel using turbines for crucifiction. More deaths in the UK Continental shelf since 2000 due to Wind Power than rig operations in oil and gas, though obvs Piper Alpha will far skew any figures on a longer term.

[StanleyT]

Oh yeah, molten salts. My grandfathers helped build one of the Dounreay Molten salt reactors.

Apparently the safety advice was "if you get any salt in your eye, don't cry, it only makes the burning worse"........

US Navy Molten salt disposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7mTCMvpEM