The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[JD]

Regardless of your side of the fence, it has to be said the rate of engineering progress is impressive.

The needle has been above 9 GW all day!

[turbobloke]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

turbobloke said:

Compare and contrast with >£50bn 'invested' in 'clean' energy (UK) 2010 - 2015 inclusive.

Source and breakdown ?
Stop being obtuse

Paddy giving instructions

Here's an acute reference...as opposed to obtuse. It provides an interesting angle.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-record-uk-ren...

See graphic for details.

[Toltec]

JD said:

Regardless of your side of the fence, it has to be said the rate of engineering progress is impressive.

The needle has been above 9 GW all day!

Given the demand this afternoon it looks like it was handy it was windy.

[LongQ]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Jinx said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

You would need to be building lots of power stations just to build a wind farm – and clearly we are not.

[cough] China is building lots of power stations - some of which will be used to provide the parts for wind farms. [/cough]

[cough medicine] China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants last year in country - admittedly they are making many but overseas. For such International wind energy hubs like Uganda, Egypt, Pakistan and Iran - right ? [/cough medicine]


[eyeroll] the majority of the Offshore wind turbines installed in Europe over the last decade were manufactured in Denmark. How many Power stations have been built there? [/eyeroll]

Denmark is squeezed between Norway's on-demand Hydro and Germany's base load Coal.

It is atypical of anywhere.

What percentage of the offshore installations have been made with material or components manufactured in China?

[Ali G]

LongQ said:

Denmark is squeezed between Norway's on-demand Hydro and Germany's base load Coal.

It is atypical of anywhere.

What percentage of the offshore installations have been made with material or components manufactured in China?

Denmark should really not form the basis for any deployment of energy in other countries - it is in a unique position.

Granted - this is from a nuclear site which may have its own slant to counter renewables inc generic green bias.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/c...

Article said:

Denmark gets one-third of its electricity from coal, and more from wind.
Each half of the country is part of a major electrical grid which depends on nuclear power for much of the base-load supply.
About ten percent of domestic consumption is from nuclear power.

What is on the other side of the interconnects has to have base-load and on-demand to compensate for the variability of wind and not all of it is from renewables.

[wc98]

Ali G said:

What is on the other side of the interconnects has to have base-load and on-demand to compensate for the variability of wind and not all of it is from renewables.

my last stay in denmark was on the langeland peninsula on the baltic . . . in november. the standard of street lighting levels meant there was no need to worry about light pollution . nowhere else in the world ever seemed so dim and dreary at night. to be fair that was twenty years ago, i am sure things have improved now they have bigger wind mills .

[V8 Fettler]

LongQ said:

Denmark is squeezed between Norway's on-demand Hydro and Germany's base load Coal.

It is atypical of anywhere.

What percentage of the offshore installations have been made with material or components manufactured in China?

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

[V8 Fettler]

wc98 said:

Ali G said:

What is on the other side of the interconnects has to have base-load and on-demand to compensate for the variability of wind and not all of it is from renewables.

my last stay in denmark was on the langeland peninsula on the baltic . . . in november. the standard of street lighting levels meant there was no need to worry about light pollution . nowhere else in the world ever seemed so dim and dreary at night. to be fair that was twenty years ago, i am sure things have improved now they have bigger wind mills .

Were there no Danish women to brighten up your evenings?

[voyds9]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

RenewableUK’s Executive Director Emma Pinchbeck told the Committee: An energy system led by renewables is the lowest cost option for the UK. I'd bet my house on renewables. A smart energy system can deliver consumers savings of £8bn a year between now and 2030.

I would be happier if that was a rebate for all the 'green subsidies' we have already been subjected to.

[Ali G]

V8 Fettler said:

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

If you can call the brown stuff coal - it's lignite mainly.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/6...

[LongQ]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

RenewableUK has given evidence to the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Select Committee on the cost-effectiveness on wind, wave and tidal energy, as part of their inquiry into the Cost of Energy Review conducted by Professor Dieter Helm.

RenewableUK’s Executive Director Emma Pinchbeck told the Committee: An energy system led by renewables is the lowest cost option for the UK. I'd bet my house on renewables. A smart energy system can deliver consumers savings of £8bn a year between now and 2030.

Questioned by the Committee on how consumers can benefit from the rapid falls we have seen in the cost of renewables, Miss Pinchbeck said: “Competitive auctions for CfDs are the best way to lock in low-cost energy for consumers, with offshore wind delivering cost reductions unprecedented in any other sector.

Miss Pinchbeck noted that while the review is focused on future, there are actions which could be taken now to reduce costs and provide certainty, saying: “It’s important to back the Government in taking another look at onshore wind and start running a pot 1 auction. That would deliver onshore wind at under £50 per megawatt hour - cheaper than gas. It's extraordinary that onshore wind isn't allowed to compete for CfDs. Government could clarify how the £557m of funding for pot 2 CfD auctions is going to be spent, as that will help the supply chain to gear up.

“There is no certainty at the moment for small and medium wind and other small-scale, decentralised technologies beyond 2019. There was supposed to be a Feed-in-Tariff consultation last year, but it’s been delayed.

Miss Pinchbeck highlighted the Helm Review’s failure to recognise the fact that energy policy can contribute to wider economic, industrial and regional development: “New projects have brought investment in regions across the UK - with £18bn more to come over the next 5 years. Those wider industrial benefits should be recognised. 90% of this investment is being spent outside the south-east of England, in areas where it’s needed most to create jobs. More than 50% of RenewableUK’s members are supply chain companies and we’re exporting worldwide.

Questioned on how new and innovative technologies can be developed in the UK, RenewableUK’s Executive Director said: “We also need to look at technologies where there is potential for cost reduction to compete in the market, where there is a global demand for those technologies, and where the UK has existing skills and resources. Wave and tidal energy are examples of those technologies – they need a route to market. The debate about the next round of energy policy for the 2020s has started.”

Well, she would say that wouldn't she?

Did she provide numbers of how that would work? Or just assume that the politicians don't want to get involved with numbers and will usually accept what they are told if it suits them to do so?

What if her information is wrong?

[Ali G]

I guess that Vorsprung Durch Tecknik may have moved climate control out of cars by then and redeployed to wind generation purposes.

[wc98]

V8 Fettler said:

Were there no Danish women to brighten up your evenings?

there actually were in a strange home made bar/club a local pointed us toward when we asked about somewhere to go in the evening. being married i decided to leave when the woman sitting next to us decided to give the bloke with her a hand job ,my team manager and a team mate stayed on. it was an interesting evening apparently. the lack of light in the baltic winter obviously had a funny effect on the inhabitants during winter time.

[V8 Fettler]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Ali G said:

V8 Fettler said:

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

If you can call the brown stuff coal - it's lignite mainly.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/6...

Roughly 27 percent of Germany's electricity is from renewables; the goal is at least 80 percent by 2050.

Is that a minimum, a maximum or an average?

[rolando]

V8 Fettler said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Ali G said:

V8 Fettler said:

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

If you can call the brown stuff coal - it's lignite mainly.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/6...

Roughly 27 percent of Germany's electricity is from renewables; the goal is at least 80 percent by 2050.

Is that a minimum, a maximum or an average?

…or capacity?

[turbobloke]

rolando said:

V8 Fettler said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Ali G said:

V8 Fettler said:

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

If you can call the brown stuff coal - it's lignite mainly.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/6...

Roughly 27 percent of Germany's electricity is from renewables; the goal is at least 80 percent by 2050.

Is that a minimum, a maximum or an average?

…or capacity?

As it happens, due to the intermittency of wind and the inconsistency of wind speed (on which the Quixotic variety of unreliables depends) the average output of a UK wind turbine is about 25% of its capacity. This is why, regardless of anything else, unreliables activists like to talk about capacity. Reality is less palatable (to everyone).

[rscott]

turbobloke said:

rolando said:

V8 Fettler said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Ali G said:

V8 Fettler said:

Those Germans are using coal? The fiends! Don't they know it's dangerous?

If you can call the brown stuff coal - it's lignite mainly.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/6...

Roughly 27 percent of Germany's electricity is from renewables; the goal is at least 80 percent by 2050.

Is that a minimum, a maximum or an average?

…or capacity?

As it happens, due to the intermittency of wind and the inconsistency of wind speed (on which the Quixotic variety of unreliables depends) the average output of a UK wind turbine is about 25% of its capacity. This is why, regardless of anything else, unreliables activists like to talk about capacity. Reality is less palatable (to everyone).

This https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germany... suggests the 27% figure isn't correct. Rather that 33.1% of the energy produced (not capacity) in 2017 was from renewable sources.

[Ali G]

New EDF nuke for Sizewell could be 20% cheaper than Hinckley.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-suffolk-42...

Rossi said:

the key to reducing the cost of building new power stations was replication.

Ye don't say...

That and a spot of competion.

[Ali G]

rscott said:

This https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germany... suggests the 27% figure isn't correct. Rather that 33.1% of the energy produced (not capacity) in 2017 was from renewable sources.

Something honest from EDF

https://www.edfenergy.com/future-energy/challenges...

EDF said:

Generating electricity from renewable energy sources like wind and sunlight will help to fulfil our carbon-reduction commitments. But these renewables produce electricity intermittently – we cannot rely on them to meet peaks in demand.

[rscott]

Ali G said:

rscott said:

This https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germany... suggests the 27% figure isn't correct. Rather that 33.1% of the energy produced (not capacity) in 2017 was from renewable sources.

Something honest from EDF

https://www.edfenergy.com/future-energy/challenges...

EDF said:

Generating electricity from renewable energy sources like wind and sunlight will help to fulfil our carbon-reduction commitments. But these renewables produce electricity intermittently – we cannot rely on them to meet peaks in demand.

Where does anything I linked to claim otherwise? I can't recall anyone posting on here that the current renewable supply isn't variable in nature.