The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain

[PRTVR]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

V8 Fettler said:

Do they have any facts, or is their report based on guesswork?

Plenty of stockpiling space available at various disused airfields for immediate use. Concrete pads are not difficult to construct.

Your ‘solution ‘ entails collecting coal from around the world, shipping and freighting to Paris ofvtge countryside for storage, and double handling it to the power stations (old one that are being scrapped) and burning ?

The short term answer is coal and gas, until renewables can provide reliable electricity with whatever means of backup is proven to work, coal movements around the world are commonplace, site the new coal plants next to old ones, a policy that has been adopted by the nuclear industry ,people are use to them so there is less opposition, also the infrastructure is already there,one could be built on the old Redcar steel site, all the equipment is still there for moving large amounts of coal from ship to station.
I still think small nuclear power stations are the future if the security issues can be solved along with a few large nuclear plants for base load, oh we can have a few wind turbines to keep the greens happy.

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

Estimate = approximation = element of guesswork. The Selby DC report contains relevant facts, I can see no relevant facts on the IET webpage you linked to,

Haha you haven't a clue. Ever heard of tolerance? Tolerance stack? Ideal conditions?

[turbobloke]

PRTVR said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

V8 Fettler said:

Do they have any facts, or is their report based on guesswork?

Plenty of stockpiling space available at various disused airfields for immediate use. Concrete pads are not difficult to construct.

Your ‘solution ‘ entails collecting coal from around the world, shipping and freighting to Paris ofvtge countryside for storage, and double handling it to the power stations (old one that are being scrapped) and burning ?

The short term answer is coal and gas, until renewables can provide reliable electricity with whatever means of backup is proven to work, coal movements around the world are commonplace, site the new coal plants next to old ones, a policy that has been adopted by the nuclear industry ,people are use to them so there is less opposition, also the infrastructure is already there,one could be built on the old Redcar steel site, all the equipment is still there for moving large amounts of coal from ship to station.
I still think small nuclear power stations are the future if the security issues can be solved along with a few large nuclear plants for base load, oh we can have a few wind turbines to keep the greens happy.

Let's get fracking then!

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

Estimate = approximation = element of guesswork. The Selby DC report contains relevant facts, I can see no relevant facts on the IET webpage you linked to,

Haha you haven't a clue. Ever heard of tolerance? Tolerance stack? Ideal conditions?

Yes thank you. The fact remains that the Selby DC report refers to facts.

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

Yes thank you. The fact remains that the Selby DC report refers to facts.

And what size is the coal stack in question?

[Gary C]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

We can stockpile months of coal, how much gas can we stockpile? Two weeks?

Oh so because we can store it we therefore have security? I don't agree.

Again, coal obviously has it's place right now, but I'd much rather see that gap filled with nuclear.

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

[Evanivitch]

Gary C said:

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

All sorts of places. But reality is we still (for now) have a relatively large North Sea oil and gas facility.

We don't have a large mining industry and all this talk of reserves is based on coal that isn't currently accessible through traditional means or with current planning limitations.

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

Yes thank you. The fact remains that the Selby DC report refers to facts.

And what size is the coal stack in question?

You've asked a scatter-gun smoke screen question that is irrelevant to the facts presented in the Selby DC report.

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

All sorts of places. But reality is we still (for now) have a relatively large North Sea oil and gas facility.

We don't have a large mining industry and all this talk of reserves is based on coal that isn't currently accessible through traditional means or with current planning limitations.

A proportion of UK coal reserves is accessible by current means, but not at current prices. If there is a real risk that we could run dangerously low on gas then planning considerations should be steamrollered.

[Gary C]

Willy Nilly said:

How do they re-start a coal power station furnace? Not rolled up news paper and kindling I expect?

Used too ! Chain grates were started like that. Most 60,70 era ones had oil burners which were ignited by propane. Ironbridge could even do 200mw on oil alone with an array of 24.

They burnt oil so thick it needed to be kept warm, when a unit tripped, we had to run out, pull all the burner lances out and blow the oil out with compressed air, otherwise it would have solidified in the burner.

We then ended up with buckets of thick oil, which inevitably ended up in the coal feeder lub oil tank

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

Yes thank you. The fact remains that the Selby DC report refers to facts.

And what size is the coal stack in question?

You've asked a scatter-gun smoke screen question that is irrelevant to the facts presented in the Selby DC report.

No I haven't.

In 2015 the UK coal storage was less than 500,000 tons.

The average US power station stores nearly 250,000 tons.

I don't even care if it's US short or long tonnes, you're a magnitude out on source data alone.

[V8 Fettler]

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

Evanivitch said:

V8 Fettler said:

Yes thank you. The fact remains that the Selby DC report refers to facts.

And what size is the coal stack in question?

You've asked a scatter-gun smoke screen question that is irrelevant to the facts presented in the Selby DC report.

No I haven't.

In 2015 the UK coal storage was less than 500,000 tons.

The average US power station stores nearly 250,000 tons.

I don't even care if it's US short or long tonnes, you're a magnitude out on source data alone.

How is the data within the Selby DC report inaccurate? You posted a link to a page on the IET website which relies on an "estimate" with no meaningful data, I posted a link to the Selby DC report which contains data and facts.

DRAX reportedly used to stockpile over one million tonnes (2009), is there data available for overall historical particulate emission from DRAX?

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/print/...

Alarmingly, biomass appears to increase particulate emissions. http://energyandcarbon.com/will-biomass-follow-die...

[V8 Fettler]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

V8 Fettler said:

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

All sorts of places. But reality is we still (for now) have a relatively large North Sea oil and gas facility.

We don't have a large mining industry and all this talk of reserves is based on coal that isn't currently accessible through traditional means or with current planning limitations.

A proportion of UK coal reserves is accessible by current means, but not at current prices. If there is a real risk that we could run dangerously low on gas then planning considerations should be steamrollered.

And you think ‘current prices’ will get better??

If there is a real risk that we could run dangerously low on gas then we need to do something. Nuclear is not a short term fix (construction periods too long), coal-fired can be constructed relatively quickly. What's you proposed solution? Disconnect consumers?

[turbobloke]

V8 Fettler said:

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

V8 Fettler said:

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

All sorts of places. But reality is we still (for now) have a relatively large North Sea oil and gas facility.

We don't have a large mining industry and all this talk of reserves is based on coal that isn't currently accessible through traditional means or with current planning limitations.

A proportion of UK coal reserves is accessible by current means, but not at current prices. If there is a real risk that we could run dangerously low on gas then planning considerations should be steamrollered.

And you think ‘current prices’ will get better??

If there is a real risk that we could run dangerously low on gas then we need to do something. Nuclear is not a short term fix (construction periods too long), coal-fired can be constructed relatively quickly. What's you proposed solution? Disconnect consumers?

Remote disconnection via smart meters to the rescue!



So far the threat is to industrial consumers.

[Gary C]

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

Hum. Where do we get our fuel from

All sorts of places. But reality is we still (for now) have a relatively large North Sea oil and gas facility.

We don't have a large mining industry and all this talk of reserves is based on coal that isn't currently accessible through traditional means or with current planning limitations.

you were talking about preferring nuclear, but that fuel isn't from the uk. I meant by 'where does our fuel come from' as in the nuclear industry.

[Evanivitch]

Gary C said:

you were talking about preferring nuclear, but that fuel isn't from the uk. I meant by 'where does our fuel come from' as in the nuclear industry.

A nuclear fuel rod is good for what, 6 years? Power station refuelled every 2 years? Not quite the same as shipping 2-300,000 of coal at a time is it?

[Evanivitch]

V8 Fettler said:

How is the data within the Selby DC report inaccurate? You posted a link to a page on the IET website which relies on an "estimate" with no meaningful data, I posted a link to the Selby DC report which contains data and facts.

DRAX reportedly used to stockpile over one million tonnes (2009), is there data available for overall historical particulate emission from DRAX?

http://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/print/...

Alarmingly, biomass appears to increase particulate emissions. http://energyandcarbon.com/will-biomass-follow-die...

I didn't say the data was inaccurate, it's irrelevant.

It's like comparing traffic emissions on a quiet country lane to the middle of London. You're recording different data and unless you understand the scalability then you can't compare 2 different scenarios.

[Gary C]

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

you were talking about preferring nuclear, but that fuel isn't from the uk. I meant by 'where does our fuel come from' as in the nuclear industry.

A nuclear fuel rod is good for what, 6 years? Power station refuelled every 2 years? Not quite the same as shipping 2-300,000 of coal at a time is it?

Didn't say it was, but we still rely on foreign imports.

Dwell time is about 4-5 years and refuelling an AGR is done about 10 channels a month.

[Evanivitch]

Gary C said:

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

you were talking about preferring nuclear, but that fuel isn't from the uk. I meant by 'where does our fuel come from' as in the nuclear industry.

A nuclear fuel rod is good for what, 6 years? Power station refuelled every 2 years? Not quite the same as shipping 2-300,000 of coal at a time is it?

Didn't say it was, but we still rely on foreign imports.

Dwell time is about 4-5 years and refuelling an AGR is done about 10 channels a month.

So how often do we receive shipments of nuclear materials into the UK?

[Gary C]

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

Evanivitch said:

Gary C said:

you were talking about preferring nuclear, but that fuel isn't from the uk. I meant by 'where does our fuel come from' as in the nuclear industry.

A nuclear fuel rod is good for what, 6 years? Power station refuelled every 2 years? Not quite the same as shipping 2-300,000 of coal at a time is it?

Didn't say it was, but we still rely on foreign imports.

Dwell time is about 4-5 years and refuelling an AGR is done about 10 channels a month.

So how often do we receive shipments of nuclear materials into the UK?

Seem to want an argument ?

Better question would be, how much do we stock.

Anyway, I'm not allowed to say

Edited by Gary C on Saturday 3rd March 14:06